Obama supports new bid to ban assault weapons.

[Ratbastage]

Ratbastage, I'm not asking you to compromise your rights. I'm asking to compromise on a specific issue. Gun Control. Not banning all guns, not abolishing the 2a. But compromising on what type of guns should be allowed, amounts of ammo that should be allowed in a single magazine. As stated, these are things that should of been taken care of 50+ years ago. If they had, this discussion and ones like it would never be needed. But unfortunately people see the word compromise and figure that means losing, and generally the discussion dies there because logic and rational get thrown out the window and replaced with rhetoric. Just look at our congress and senate.

Why is it that instead of simply being able to have a discussion its nothing but rhetoric? Why is it that when asked why you need a ar with a 30 round mag the only answer is "cause I can"? Why not just admit you got it cause you think its cool, your buddy has one, or simply you have some insecurity issues, or maybe just a small dick. It doesnt matter. Theres no legit reason to need one. If hunters and shooters made it all these years with bolt or lever action rifles and still got the job done why cant you? You still get your guns? Hell we went to vietnam with m1's, won ww2 with em. But you need more to protect yourself? Where's the logic in that.

Were not talking tools, cars, or whatever so dont compare them. We are talking specific guns, magazine sizes, and the control of how these and all guns are moved threw out the system. Which obviously has failed because people are still shooting places up, or using illegal guns in other crime. All guns start out legal, its only our own failing that lets end up in the hands of someone who should have them. And instead of compromising in order to get intelligent and concise gun control laws to help prevent all this from happening you simply hide behind rhetoric and nothing gets done. And it all just keeps happening over and over again.

Like I asked before. How many innocent lives are your guns worth? Because until people like you are ready to compromise (not give up, not lose) and do what is best for everyone and not just yourself this shit is gonna keep happening. And the worst part is this is going to start happening more and more frequently as our nation continues to spiral downward.

I already have had my right infringed. I have to suffer through a NICS check, apply to my local county Sheriffs office for a permit to purchase (which also involves NICS) and in states that have one, wait through a waiting period. That is not rhetoric, that is fact.

To get my conceal carry permit I had to take a training class, qualify on the range with my weapon of choice, pass the written exam and then apply again through my local Sheriffs office who did a more through background check involving the state bureau of investigation, the feds and so on. Then I had to be fingerprinted to receive my CCL.

It took a hell of a lot longer to gain a pistol permit to purchase than it took to register to vote and I had to show more forms of ID.

I also have to follow a host of interesting and sometimes inane laws while I carry, open or concealed and must know the law of the land when I travel out of my county.

So, what is it I'm supposed to do now to exercise my right under the Second?

On the subject of magazines I have several box magazine fed rifles. A AR15 and a M1 number in those. The M1 came with a 20 round mag and a 30 round mag on purchase. The AR kit I bought less lower came with 2 30 round mags.

In common use, look it up, its part of the Heller decision. Do I specifically need a 30 round mag for either gun? No, did they come that way? Yes.

A better question would be who are you to tell need I cant have a 30 round magazine for my AR that I store correctly, handle correctly and responsibly own?

What I find hilarious is the entire magazine debate. My 1919A4 is belt fed. I can feed it a entire box of 1000 rounds of .308 if I feel like linking that much ammo. I guess once someone notices that I'll be limited to 10 links in ownership at any time.

[Quadrajet]

Let's start by not having these criminals faces and names flashed all over the news for weeks on end. If they are looking to leave their mark or "notice me", take that away from them. Once the "glamour" or "fantasy" of being famous or infamous is taken away it won't be such a lure.

If teachers or staff would like to take the opportunity to be armed, so be it, it's their choice. And the threat of "someone may be armed" would be a deterrent to those with a "body count" fantasy. Especially when you consider it took the cops 20mins to reach Sandy Hook school. And when you consider that once the cops arrive they have to get a feel for the situation, prepare any special gear,then come up with a plan, that's another 2 to 5 mins, at best. Then they have to actually start clearing room by room...

[Ratbastage]

Sleeve, it is rhetoric when no actual reasons are given within a discussion. Simply restating history and the 2a is not an answer to the question of what should be done. It's simply an excuse to keep the status que which is not working. Plain and simple. I would love an actual intelligent discussion with an actual view point on a specific issue. Not simply a "cause I can" or "its in the constitution" answer.

And no I'm not a occupy kid. I'm 30 and though I do agree with some of their stuff I'm old enough to know that the way they went about things was doomed from the get go. But I'm also old enough to know that its movement such as theirs that will end up effecting a greater and better change to the world as a whole. Imagine if something along the lines of egypt happened in dc, calling for the expulsion of our overly crooked congress? Which honestly isn't to far fetched an idea. I was arrested for public disturbance during human rights protests. You know, those things you seem to care so much about. And once for punching a anti-abortion guy after seeing him spit on and throw a drink onto a young girl trying to get into a clinic. Turns out she was knocked up from being raped. So I have no qualms with that.

To try and start an actual discussion I'll give you my idea of what should be done. Then you can comment and give me yours. But no half ass answers please. Give me what you honest ideas are for fixing this.

For person to person: I believe all gun sales should be at least registered with the local police so there are actual records to follow the gun. With a standard background check involved and a wait period of atleast 7 days. And if this is not done you go to jail.

For dealer to person: Once again, registered with police, background check, wait period. I also would like to see standard pysch testing for first time purchasers. Again, you fail to do any of this you go to jail.

For ar/ak/ect style guns: Much stricter than other style guns. Must have a special permit requiring legit reasons for the need of this style gun. Whether that be comp shooting or whatever. Tighter background checks and pysch screening. This would include checking of family as well to weed out possible unintentional side effects. IE crazy brother, son.

High Capacity mags: Theres simply no real reason to have these. Not necessarily ban, but only for controlled comps or exhibition where these are given by and returned to the range/event holder. You can go shot em when you want, but only at these type of deals.

Should also require new purchasers to go threw training before being able to purchase. Wouldn't be a bad thing to have regular pysch evals, kind of a check up to help catch possible issues before they escalate. Miss a eval, lose your foid and your guns.

The main issue is keeping records of where guns go and to whom. Our biggest issue with gun violence comes from all that fall threw the cracks and end up in gang, kartel, ect hands.

Ok your turn.

So what does registration do?

What is the difference between a AR, AK, Ranch Rifle, M!, M4 and a M14?

The overwhelming number of gun owners are law abiding people when it comes to guns and a overall respect of the law. At what point are people like you going to realize the law abiding citizens who happen to own guns are not the problem so why punish them and infringe their rights even more?

The other question I would really like an answer to is why exactly people need a ar's, ak's, and the like. Basically watered down military weapons. I get that their cool, I enjoy shooting them. But really, why?

Home defense? Figure a 12 gauge would be better, a hand gun more than sufficient. Both also would be easier to handle in closed quarters. The shot gun has the main benefit of a wide spread. Better chance of hitting the target in split second aiming situation. Why not a taurus judge? Or something similar.

Target shooting? Really, shot gun, pistol, standard bolt/lever action hunting rifle more than sufficient. Hell gimme a winchester yellowboy in 44-40 and I'm good to go.

Hunting? Again, the above applies as well.

Just really curious as to what your guys personal motivation is. Just really hoping for something better than "it's cool and I can". Not judging, just curious.

I use my AR to varmit hunt, it was built as a close range varmit rifle. Its prmary purpose is killing 'yotes.

My AK was bought because of collect-ability and the fact it reasonably accurate, extreme fun to shoot and more importantly, cheap fun under 100 yards. It too has taken its share of 'yotes and a few pigs.

Its nice to shoot a few pigs or 'yotes without loss of the sight picture or need to work a lever or bolt. Efficiency.

Guys please, I do realize that a gun is simply an object. It's ultimate end use is defined by the user, not the object.



My main issue here is considering it a unsolvable problem. No problem is unsolvable, only when we refuse to do anything does seem that way. This is one of the biggest issues with our country right now. We seem to simply bury our heads in the sand and label something unsolvable hoping it will go away on its own, or hope that the gov will fix it for us. Whether it be this, the economy, jobs ect. These problems persist only because we allow them to. Our own inaction leads to our own downfall. And nothing will change unless we are willing to sit and have these discussions.

I pose this question next. If banning only so called assault rifles and high capacity mags, leaving all other gun laws untouched, would this still be considered to much a infringement? This wouldn't stop these sort of issues, but if it means instead of 20 people dying only 5 die, would you consider this a fair tradeoff for giving up only the assault rifles and high cap mags?

It's the whole line in the sand deal. At what point do we draw the line? As for paying for others misdeeds, we do it all the time. Whether that be high insurance rates do to uninsured motorists, or bailing out the banks after commiting their various misdeeds. Personal responsibility goes beyond yourself. We are responsible for how our society is, simply because we are what make up said society. Think of seeing a kid getting beat by a pos parent in the middle of walmart. You can do something and possibly make a change, or you can just keep walking by and the kid will keep getting beat. If you kept walking then you are somewhat personably responsible for the abuse of a child, simply by inaction.

You want to look at something for the hell of it. Take a look at the prescribed meds the shooters from Columbine to Newtown were on, then look at the family of meds those are from. Then do a little more research. Maybe we need to look hard at the pharma industry and its accountability in events like the above.


Edit:

What in the hell is a assault rifle anyway?

[cale]

And it makes me so proud that someone in Canada gives so much concern for its country to the south.

It's mostly for the entertainment value. Don't worry, when civilians are possessing arsenals and body armor *coughcough* I realize they're a little challenged when it comes to thinking rationally and prefer to sit back and laugh.

[dannyyisntt]

It's mostly for the entertainment value. Don't worry, when civilians are possessing arsenals and body armor *coughcough* I realize they're a little challenged when it comes to thinking rationally and prefer to sit back and laugh.

Your just jealous. I'm buying a tank next week. 'merica!

[cale]

Who the hell buys A tank? Everyone knows you need more than one so you're not a sitting duck. Besides, isn't Obama giving those out for free too? If not I'm sure the sub-prime lending will make buying a half dozen affordable.

[mrsleeve]

Sleeve, it is rhetoric when no actual reasons are given within a discussion. Simply restating history and the 2a is not an answer to the question of what should be done. It's simply an excuse to keep the status que which is not working. Plain and simple. I would love an actual intelligent discussion with an actual view point on a specific issue. Not simply a "cause I can" or "its in the constitution" answer.

How is it not working? Its not rhetoric because you dont like it, its the facts of the matter, the 2a is there, and we have done 'compromise thing" we have plenty of gun laws on the books, lets get good at enforcing those 1st. Gun Crime is on the decline, and has been since a high point of 1993. Violent crime is going down, and has been on its own. Actual mass shootings have not changed up or down in general in the last 30 years despite what the media is and the current crop elected officials are trying to tell you. All in spite of the fact that there is greater rates of gun ownership and lawful citizens carrying them around. The FBI confirms this and the CDC has said gun control and the 94 AWB did nothing for crime rates.

Why are we trying to ban weapons used in less than 1% of gun crime anyway??? When we have knives killing 5 times as many people as ALL RIFLES, and Ball bats and other blunt instruments accounting for many more killings, or even hands and feet and just good ol fashioned ass kicking's gone to far??? Oh yeah because you said so and you feel that would be a good idea. Feelings not facts again.

Well that thats the issue when it comes to rights, and the Constitution, even if you dont like all the rights it protects, you have to deal with them.

And no I'm not a occupy kid. I'm 30 and though I do agree with some of their stuff I'm old enough to know that the way they went about things was doomed from the get go. But I'm also old enough to know that its movement such as theirs that will end up effecting a greater and better change to the world as a whole. Imagine if something along the lines of egypt happened in dc, calling for the expulsion of our overly crooked congress? Which honestly isn't to far fetched an idea. I was arrested for public disturbance during human rights protests. You know, those things you seem to care so much about. And once for punching a anti-abortion guy after seeing him spit on and throw a drink onto a young girl trying to get into a clinic. Turns out she was knocked up from being raped. So I have no qualms with that.

If your 30 then whats your excuse????? I am 32. Ok so your not an Occupy kid but you have been arrested 4 times for your protest behavior Way to go congratulations. You assaulted someone, good of for you, ( I cant say I would not have done the same in that situation on that one knowing the story, but he assaulted the girl 1st and should have been the one in Jail for assault) . What were you doing at Abortion clinic anyway?? Were you protesting the protesters, yeah thats a great thing for the patients ???? Human rights you say, Like the Acorn people braking in to foreclosed homes and "returning them to their owners" kinda rights????

Umm groups like the occupiers........ Ahh, and you think what happened in Egypt was a good thing????

Given your violent tendencies, and lack of self control while exercising your 1st amendment rights you might want to reevaluate your own abilty to own a firearm responsibly form a personal perspective.

For person to person: I believe all gun sales should be at least registered with the local police so there are actual records to follow the gun. With a standard background check involved and a wait period of atleast 7 days. And if this is not done you go to jail.

Why should I have to wait 7 days to take delivery of Property I have rightfully paid for. Why do I have to get permission form my local constabulary to purchases a firearm??? When it comes to pistols its like that in many states as it is.

Whats to keep the seller for running off with my 2k dollars and my weapon in that 7 day period???

Why should there be a waiting period anyway. This is a stupid concept, you really think someone hell bent on killing a bunch of people is going to let a waiting period stop them??? Didnt stop Lanza in CT did it, he was told to wait at point of sale, so he went and stole mommies weapons!!!!! If they are planing something dont you think they are going to plan ahead for the waiting period?? these fuckers are crazy not stupid............

For dealer to person: Once again, registered with police, background check, wait period. I also would like to see standard pysch testing for first time purchasers. Again, you fail to do any of this you go to jail.

Why do I have to have permission form the constabulary, you know there already is a record of all retail sales right?? Your dad is a FFL you should know he has to keep his master book for ATF review and turn it into them when he retires from the business....

Again all retail sales have to fill out the NICS from, in some states if you have a CCW permit you the FFL does not have to call it in, and just record your CCW info on the form since you have already undergone a much more stringent background check to acquire that permit. Again waiting periods are a stupid idea and do little to nothing to stop crime, especially for people that would already own firearms.

You going to pay for the psych testing ???? I am not.

I under go more federal back grounds in a year than most people will in a life time, and I have my CCW, and TWIC cards even still my employer must submit me to a federal back ground check, and we have many customers that require them as well.

For ar/ak/ect style guns: Much stricter than other style guns. Must have a special permit requiring legit reasons for the need of this style gun. Whether that be comp shooting or whatever. Tighter background checks and pysch screening. This would include checking of family as well to weed out possible unintentional side effects. IE crazy brother, son.

So you want to tiltle 2 these firearms then??? Ok thats fine but thats going to back fire on you. TO do that and allow all those post 86 receivers on to the current registry your going to have to gut the FOPA of 1986. In doing so people are going to sell them to people like me, or are going to go though the steps to keep them, guess what that means we are all going to be putting millions of real Assault weapons out there, with select fire switches and the whole 9 yards yeah millions of real machine guns will now be in the hands of the public if you live in a NAF friendly state, in IL they would be outright banned under your idea.

Why do I have to show a "legit reason" to exercise a constitutional right. Is varmint control legit?? How about 3 gun?? Or tactical shoots, or just plain ol paper punching.

SO we are back to the NEED argument again ........................

High Capacity mags: Theres simply no real reason to have these. Not necessarily ban, but only for controlled comps or exhibition where these are given by and returned to the range/event holder. You can go shot em when you want, but only at these type of deals.

What you call High capacity I call standard capacity, why would you put less rounds in a weapon than it can practically hold??? I carry a weapon, and most of the time its impractical to carry an extra mag. My carry weapon holds 8 plus 1 thats my choice to carry single stack 45, NOT YOURS. What that means is I only have 9 chances to save my life if I ever need to use that weapon to defend my self. Many people carry double stack mags and up to 15 rounds in one mag, that gives them 15 little chances to save their life. Same thing goes when in your home, what gives you the right to tell me or anyone else that we should not have 9 chances or 16 chances to save our lives. That you should only have a mag that holds 7 rounds or 10 rounds, ???? Oh wait you FEEL that 7 or to rounds is more than enough to protect your self and family............. right???

Are your feelings going to come to save me when my weapon goes click and there is more than one attacker, Are your feelings going to be there when my wife is home alone and someone breaks in and tries to hurt her to stop them while she reloads in arms reach of an attacker ?? NO so fuck you and your high capacity horse. I find it morally repugnant that you can somehow justify in your head thats its ok to limit our ability to defend our selves just because you have feelings.


What does it matter if my mag holds 10 or 60???? Who cares, a killer can do as much damage with 1 60 round mag or 6 10 round mags, and with a little practice a mag change takes 2-3 seconds tops. So it takes the 12-18 seconds longer do what they are doing yeah thats going to help. Virgina Tech is living disgusting tragic proof of this concept.

Should also require new purchasers to go threw training before being able to purchase. Wouldn't be a bad thing to have regular pysch evals, kind of a check up to help catch possible issues before they escalate. Miss a eval, lose your foid and your guns.

Ummm I got hunters safety when I was in the 6th grade........... I grew up with firearms. I agree training is a good thing. Many many people go and take it, I have informally trained several new shooters. But you cant hinge a RIGHT on a conditional prerequisite. like training or mandated invasive medical evaluation like you can with a privilege like a drivers license . Since the pen is mightier than the sword should bloggers, you and I, protesters, media personalities be subjected to the same medical Evaluations before they exercise their 1st amendment rights????

The main issue is keeping records of where guns go and to whom. Our biggest issue with gun violence comes from all that fall threw the cracks and end up in gang, kartel, ect hands.

Ok your turn.

All your proposals do is limit what us legal law abiding owners can, own, carry and use. NONE of them do anything to address the problems, with out huge infringement of our other constitutional rights in the 4th and 5th amendments. We law abiding citizens will comply with the law, and have to know the laws because its really easy to end up with a felony weapons charge.

You live in the Peoples Republic Of Illinois, I dont expect you to understand the laws of a free states, and how disgusting we find the whole FOID card idea. Maily because you dont know any better. I have turned down several very good paying jobs that would put me at home in my own bed 90% of the time on the shear fact they would require relocation to your state.

My ideas

Lets improve the NICS, with increased accuracy of the data contained in it.

Lets do something about actual mental health treatment, not just give them a pill and turn them lose on society. There are some other things that would need to go with this, to protect the rights of the general populace for being striped of their 2a rights over a activist doc taking a comment and using it as justification for a involuntary mental evaluation. It happens.

Lets enforce the laws we have, and not let the ATF force FFLs to break the laws under threat of their FFL to arm the Mexican cartels.

Gun free zone??? WHY THE FUCK DO WE HAVE SUCH THINGS?????

Umm Big no no on record keeping, no one needs to know what I own, thats my business, not yours not my neighbors, not my local LE agencies, even congress does not want to touch this one, and the ATF is not supposed to keep a record of the NICS call ins. If they want the recoreds the have to visit each dealer and see what they have sold. The info is out there, if its needed but easy access is not part of the deal. It helps to ensure or privacy, look at the Journal News pulled in NY..........................

Increase education, and I do not brainwash the sheep with a media blitz to create a stigma and turn gun owners into 2ed class citizens like we did with smokers. Like Mr Holder argues for.

We have plenty of laws and compromises on the books now about gun control. This is a state issue, not a federal one. Like you state is trying to BAN all modern firearms and chase out Millions of dollars in tax revenue by making the manufacturing of such things illegal in the state. You guys have several BIG gun makers in your state, not to mention the 7th circuit told your law makers they had to craft a CCW law and implement it in 60 days, your down to about 30, because your outright ban on CCW is UNCONSTITUTIONAL, so far they have been doing just the opposite.

[sumoashe]

Sleeve, Thanks for finally putting out an actual response. I hope you don't feel as I singling you out. But you seemed to be the most knowledgeable and I figured would be the best to actually have a discussion with. Was getting tired of post after post and page after page of no one actually stating their opinion on your side of the fence. Even you could admit it was kinda like reading a nra pamphlet. It was mainly, well, 2a this, history that, and really just bickering. By "your opinoin" I was looking for just this, your opinion on what should be done.

As for why I was at the clinic, oddly enough its in the same parking lot as dominic's (grocery store) and a blockbuster. I was there grocery shopping, (at dominic's, not clinic) when I walked out of the store to head over to rent a movie I saw the man do what he did. By the time I got to where he was at she had already ran in to the clinic balling. Now protesters weren't an odd thing there. It was a combination of his act and the shear indifference of the 15 odd people in the parking lot shopping that set me off. Needless to say what he did wasnt considered "assault", where as what I did was. Charges were dropped after he decided that would be better than having to pay a pretty penny in fines for what he did. Yeah, things work a little different here in Illinois.

I honestly dont have anything bad to say about your idea's. Actually agree with alot of it. Def agree on the mental health issue. We treat mental health issues much the same as we did in the past. Still seeing it as a hugely taboo subject. Something to hide in the closet. We still use these people as guinea pigs, simply moved on to pharmaceutical probing. We need to do more actual research instead of simply using the technique of give this pill and see what happens. Don't like the result, give em another. But who's gonna touch big pharma when half the damn nation takes pills for everything. To fat, to skinny, ect. ect. we got a pill for that. We also live in a nation where drug addiction is considered a crime rather than a health issue. This has a huge effect on crime in general. But that there is nother issue thats a taboo to talk about.

I'd be interested in your view of the DEA. I think where we differ is you wanting societal changes to catch up to gun laws. Where as I want the law changes to allow society to catch up. I think we can both agree that society is not where it should be.

[mrsleeve]

Look I will take a step back start over to a certain degree with you. You come in here all guns blazing spouting the traditional grabber arguments, and I started from the beginning with you. NRA pamphlet or not its the actually facts of the matter at hand is it not??? I admit I may have jumped on you a little hard, but I am just sick to death of hearing this "common sense regulation" arguments that people who know NOTHING about the topics spout off all over the place advocating for bans and regulation to save lives. When these actions are well proven to DO NOTHING OF THE SORT, and that these actions they think this will stop are well on the decline in spite of more guns and high capacity mags out there in circulation.

There are no more compromises on regulation to be made. The real problems need to be addressed and not the symptom .

[Ratbastage]

Hey sumoashe, think you can trust the machine political to do the right thing? There were Democrats wanting a registration, then confiscation of personal property in the debate for the NY gun and magazine ban.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryUbJfg4tAo&feature=player_embedded

Look at some of his other videos as well for a little insight as to why people like me are not willingly going to give a inch.

And this one is a R by me. Another shining example of wanting to strip your rights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92F8yuifX6o

edit: and also, Joe Morrisey is a felon from what I understand. Had anyone but a politician pulled something like this they's be dead or facing a list of felonies longer than your arm.

[u3b3rg33k]

Ummm I got hunters safety when I was in the 6th grade........... I grew up with firearms. I agree training is a good thing. Many many people go and take it, I have informally trained several new shooters. But you cant hinge a RIGHT on a conditional prerequisite. like training or mandated invasive medical evaluation like you can with a privilege like a drivers license . Since the pen is mightier than the sword should bloggers, you and I, protesters, media personalities be subjected to the same medical Evaluations before they exercise their 1st amendment rights????

Honestly I believe it would be good for the US as a whole if someone where to seriously challenge (and then lose) the first amendment rights of people in general. I would love to see a bill put in to law requiring "free speech" licenses and "free speech free" zones with a felony as punishment, and then see it struck down with the full force of an angry America.

What truly bothers me is that I fear such a law would not be struck down with the might of Thor's hammer.

[mrsleeve]

We have a such a thing as a free speech zones and they have been uphled by the courts, I belive it has gone all the way to the SCOTUS. Mostly its for people like new guy that are protesting shit and if you leave your little area the cops will bash the shit out of you.

They are areas set aside for protests and similar activities on college campuses, large political events and such. You have to get a permit to get have a rally or protest in many cases now days on govt land or public property. There are many "common sense regulations" to go with free speech, but most dont know that either.

But I like the idea of the 1st amendment license, If I have to get a govt permission slip to exercise my 2a rights in public everyone should have to get a govt permission slip to exercise their 1a rights in public or in a public venue. Whats good enough for 1 right should be good enough for them all correct..........

I am being facetious about that of course, Just think about it.

[Ratbastage]

Sleeve, Thanks for finally putting out an actual response. I hope you don't feel as I singling you out. But you seemed to be the most knowledgeable and I figured would be the best to actually have a discussion with. Was getting tired of post after post and page after page of no one actually stating their opinion on your side of the fence. Even you could admit it was kinda like reading a nra pamphlet. It was mainly, well, 2a this, history that, and really just bickering. By "your opinoin" I was looking for just this, your opinion on what should be done.

As for why I was at the clinic, oddly enough its in the same parking lot as dominic's (grocery store) and a blockbuster. I was there grocery shopping, (at dominic's, not clinic) when I walked out of the store to head over to rent a movie I saw the man do what he did. By the time I got to where he was at she had already ran in to the clinic balling. Now protesters weren't an odd thing there. It was a combination of his act and the shear indifference of the 15 odd people in the parking lot shopping that set me off. Needless to say what he did wasnt considered "assault", where as what I did was. Charges were dropped after he decided that would be better than having to pay a pretty penny in fines for what he did. Yeah, things work a little different here in Illinois.

I honestly dont have anything bad to say about your idea's. Actually agree with alot of it. Def agree on the mental health issue. We treat mental health issues much the same as we did in the past. Still seeing it as a hugely taboo subject. Something to hide in the closet. We still use these people as guinea pigs, simply moved on to pharmaceutical probing. We need to do more actual research instead of simply using the technique of give this pill and see what happens. Don't like the result, give em another. But who's gonna touch big pharma when half the damn nation takes pills for everything. To fat, to skinny, ect. ect. we got a pill for that. We also live in a nation where drug addiction is considered a crime rather than a health issue. This has a huge effect on crime in general. But that there is nother issue thats a taboo to talk about.

I'd be interested in your view of the DEA. I think where we differ is you wanting societal changes to catch up to gun laws. Where as I want the law changes to allow society to catch up. I think we can both agree that society is not where it should be.

You want my opinion? Fine.

No more bullshit, eliminate zoloft and similar drugs until its understood what the actual side effects are. All the shooters in recent memory had a 'script for something in that family of drugs.

Eliminate the privacy surrounding HIPA and allow MD's to post scripts of that nature to a federal database. That same database could be tired to NICS to see if they lie on question 14 about mental health issues.

As long as states such as NY can publicly post the addresses and phone numbers of permit holders then the addresses and phone numbers of the elected officials should also be posted to public record.

All gun control laws also apply to LEO's and all government minions. Secret service can not have anything with a high capacity magazine in DC for example. Obama visits NY, the same, no high capacity magazines in the hands of the secret service. No mags over 7 rounds in NY leos service weapons, no pistol grips on rifles or shotguns. No FA stuff in the hands of law enforcement either.

No exceptions. If I, as a law abiding citizen have to play by a set of rules then all government officials, representatives and leos have to do the same.

The only exceptions would be military and those select fire weapons are not to be taken from storage within the borders of our country for any reason other than loading them into transporters for deployment. No range time, no testing on property owned by or within the borders of the US.

I have a real hard time funding this country and having to play by a different set of rules than the self proclaimed ruling class.

[u3b3rg33k]

it is possible to be on (or off) medication and not be a danger to others - purely checking one list against another does not tell you who's a potential danger to the public, which is part of the problem - people take proposals like that seriously.

We have a such a thing as a free speech zones and they have been uphled by the courts, I belive it has gone all the way to the SCOTUS. Mostly its for people like new guy that are protesting shit and if you leave your little area the cops will bash the shit out of you.

They are areas set aside for protests and similar activities on college campuses, large political events and such. You have to get a permit to get have a rally or protest in many cases now days on govt land or public property. There are many "common sense regulations" to go with free speech, but most dont know that either.

But I like the idea of the 1st amendment license, If I have to get a govt permission slip to exercise my 2a rights in public everyone should have to get a govt permission slip to exercise their 1a rights in public or in a public venue. Whats good enough for 1 right should be good enough for them all correct..........

I am being facetious about that of course, Just think about it.

As was I - I am aware of the free speech zone crap, and wasn't sure how to weave it in to my post.

[Ratbastage]

it is possible to be on (or off) medication and not be a danger to others - purely checking one list against another does not tell you who's a potential danger to the public, which is part of the problem - people take proposals like that seriously.



As was I - I am aware of the free speech zone crap, and wasn't sure how to weave it in to my post.

However, on a 4473 if they lie about the mental health question there is no way to cross check that due to lack of a database and privacy laws surrounding it.