Obama supports new bid to ban assault weapons.

[Ether-D]

It is all about the people who do it, not the things they do it with. I get that.
But we have to wear seat belts. That's just to save the relatively few lives versus the number of people on the road each day, it's preventative maintenance.

This was a pretty good debate this morning. Good job keeping it mostly civil, guys. (not sarcasm)

[Exodus_2pt0]

The saddest part of this, is that when the country abandons it's founding documents, the people will welcome it with open arms.

Then when they kick in your door in the middle of the night, and take out anyone who might stand in their way, it will be too late.

Don't tell me it won't happen, because it has happened before. I like to think that it won't, and it might not... But it could.

I'm not a fear monger, I'm just not afraid of the boogey man (The random guy who goes and commits murder at random). What I am afraid of is the power making a complete shift from the people to the government, which is well under way.

[sumoashe]

I feel you. It is society. And when society can handle big ass guns, they can have them back.

This is a perfect response. We as a society cannot handle the responsibility. We end up with panic response laws because it's the only time that people actually do something. Most of these type laws should of been in place decades if not longer, but we sit around arguing the same issues over and over until something comes along to force us to make these choices. And we end up with half thought out laws.

Growing up I had a railroad crossing down the road from me. This was on a main street next to several schools. For more than a decade the community petitioned for a crossing, never getting it. Then when a 7yr old girl was killed by a train there was a crossing up within 3 days. To little to late.

We need to be progressive on all laws, especially gun laws. I'm not for banning all guns. I am for making getting a gun just about the hardest thing to get. And making any gun sale go threw the proper authorities. But mostly I'm for people getting off retarded ideology and learning to compromise for the greater good. It's not about who's right or wrong, it's about whats best for everyone.

[Ratbastage]

Interesting discussion.

History, read it, learn it, more importantly, learn from it.

Taking the populace's ability of self defense away take them from citizen to subject as the whim of a petty tyrant. That has been proven over and over.

Now, on a different note, we have laws in place right?

Then explain to me how this guy is getting away with this stunt being in violation of no fewer than 3 felonies?

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/virginia-lawmaker-brandishes-ak-47-house-floor-145619331--abc-news-politics.html

Oh, thats right, the application of the law only applies to the serfs, not the elite.

[Exodus_2pt0]

Then explain to me how this guy is getting away with this stunt being in violation of no fewer than 3 felonies?

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/virginia-lawmaker-brandishes-ak-47-house-floor-145619331--abc-news-politics.html

Oh, thats right, the application of the law only applies to the serfs, not the elite.

This is what I don't like.

The reason I am against the banning of these weapons is because I fear a much darker motive.

Once our only form of resistance is eliminated, then the gloves will come off. Just look overseas, you can be arrested for posting a video of youtube of yourself ranting about things you don't like. Source: http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liver...BqRcqY.twitter

A police spokesman said: “Merseyside Police can confirm that a 25-year-old man has been arrested following reports about an offensive Facebook page that had been set up.

Read more: Liverpool Echo http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liver...#ixzz2IRHek31n

[BraveUlysses]

This is what I don't like.

The reason I am against the banning of these weapons is because I fear a much darker motive.

Once our only form of resistance is eliminated, then the gloves will come off. Just look at the UK, you can be arrested for posting a video of youtube of yourself ranting about things you don't like.

If you truly think that gun ownership is the one last thing holding off the government from doing...what exactly?

[mrsleeve]

What the fuck are you 14, does you mommy know your not doing your math homework.

MrSleeve. Attacking me personally is not gonna help your points of view come across. And don't take this personally, but constantly quoting ben franklin is retarded. Your using views of a man that lived in a different time period. With differing issues related to that time period. It has little to do with the current social climate and issues.

Personal hahaha I have not gotten personal with you. I have called you out for what you are. Ignorant. You think the founders just penned the Articles of Confederation and latter the Constitution out thin air and what they thought sounded good from their time and perspective ????? FUCK no they didnt, if you look at all the founders they were all very well read and had studied all the forms of govt from the past and came to near blows over somethings the 2a was not one of them. Their wisdom is a as true NOW this very day as it was to the free Greeks that stood at Thermopylae 2500 years ago, to the 1st century of the roman empire 500 years latter. To the US colonies 235 years ago. Human nature has not changed 1 fucking iota in the time since the founding.

As far as the terminology thing, think of it the same as people use soda or pop in different parts of the country. And again don't take this personally but you kinda sound like a paranoid person, the constant "I need my guns for when the gov tries to take my rights" statements don't help. It's kinda like the crazy guy calling others crazy.

Bull shit an you know should know why. I am not going to educate you on this, ask your dad if you must know.

Lesson 1) just because your paranoid does not mean some one is not out to get you!!!

If you dont understand the 2a and the fact that its not there for killing ducks and deer, then you have some major reading to do. I am more that glad to help if you actually willing to learn, but if your going to cling to the "living document should be subjected to modern interpretation" argument then your on your own.

I am willing to bet if you were to be arrested for speaking your opinion, or the cops raid your house with out a warrant or with out cause, you would be banging on the drum of the 1st amendment and the 4th and your RIGHTS to them.

Guns don't preserve rights, cause if it comes to needing guns for that any rights you might be fighting for are already gone. At that point your using guns to protect you and your loved ones, not your rights.

HUH WTF are you on??? Guns dont protect rights, huh ask the 20 million or so disarmed Russians that the Bolsheviks and Uncle Joe disarmed and then exterminated, the 50 million or so Chinese that were purged after giving up their arms to Mao, Or the 2 million or Cambodians wiped out by Mr Pot in the killing fields, if some of the jews had not been law abiding citizens and turned over all their arms in the name of child safety. Maybe fewer would have been subjected to genocide, and the warsaw ghetto would not have its reputation. If any of these references make you scratch your head, then I suggest you pick up a fucking history book.

My firearms defiantly preserve my rights to life, Liberty, and Pursuit of happiness. So long as I am armed no one can coerce me by threat of force to do something against my will. I can defend my self and my home form from those that wish to take my rights to life and liberty away from me, or my family or anyone else I wish to stick my neck out for. Those arms and those that every other law abiding citizen in this country and its those arms and the Constitution are the brake on govt consolidation of power.

Its people like you have no clue what you have been bestowed by just being born here in the states, what you take for granted and will so willingly give up because you dont fully comprehend the consequences of those actions.

This is america after all, if you want to preserve your rights get out and vote, lobby, run for office. You know, the things that actually effect and shape your rights. We fought the revolutionary war to be able to establish these rights, not protect them. Theres a difference.

What your dont think I vote ???? HAHAHAHA are you even old enough to vote???

WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU MEAN SHAPE OUR RIGHTS????????

Our fundamental rights are not shaped they are not gifts of the govt or conditional they are our natural rights. They are inalienable and self defense of which the 2a derives its basis is one of those basic human rights.

I am very careful with whom I give my dollars to and who I support, needless

And it's not talking out of both sides of my mouth. I'm simply educated enough to be able look at both sides of the issue with an open mind. The answers are never left or right, they lay in the middle. And whats wrong with being progressive, progress is what moves things forward. Thats kinda the definition. (And personally I dont buy into any political party, parties are screwing this country up). This is a prime example of why theres an issue in the first place. Your so set in your ideology that anything outside of it is instantly wrong and berated. Thats simply being closed minded. This is why our country is spiraling to the gutter.

No, I am for freedom of all. And the biggest enemy of freedom is Govt, and if we the people have no means of defense from said govt..................... Well it ends badly

[Ether-D]

One more thing on the supposed perfection of the constitution and the amendments: they left out black people and women. It wasn't all wise and perfect, and still needs work.

[Ether-D]

And before anyone tries ripping me on what they think my age is, I'm 35. Now what's my excuse?

[mrsleeve]

I feel you. It is society. And when society can handle big ass guns, they can have them back.

who the fuck are you again to tell me AN ADULT what I can and cant own again????


you dont like AR's then DONT BUY ONE, simple as that. But dont you dare tell me or anyone else that does want one they cant have one because you are scared of them. You should be much more worried about a gun person going nuts with a "deer rifle" or "Duck Gun" than these fuckwits that have played too much call of duty and seek out places that will have no resistance to play out their fantasy. That fantasy ends real quick as soon as bullets are flying in their direction or the threat of them anyway, like the OR mall fool and the CT deal, as soon as force was presented or was with in ear shot the shit bag shoots them selves

One more thing on the supposed perfection of the constitution and the amendments: they left out black people and women. It wasn't all wise and perfect, and still needs work.

HHAHAHAH. Yeah read the constitution again including all the clauses. Its an ANTI SLAVERY DOCUMENT, even Fredrick Douglass advocated that position, Honest Abe credits the end of slavery to the Founders and the Constitution, via death by a 1000 cuts. Women's Suffrage well thats the amendment process at work, Constitution seems to be working just fine on both of those counts

[Ratbastage]

This is what I don't like.

The reason I am against the banning of these weapons is because I fear a much darker motive.

Once our only form of resistance is eliminated, then the gloves will come off. Just look overseas, you can be arrested for posting a video of youtube of yourself ranting about things you don't like. Source: http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liver...BqRcqY.twitter

There is a reason we have the Bill Of Rights. To prevent things like that.

Personally I think the Second (which is unchanged from draft to final signing unlike the others) is there to serve as a protection or deterrent from attempts to squash the rest.

If you truly think that gun ownership is the one last thing holding off the government from doing...what exactly?

You do understand why the US has not been attacked by invasion in modern times don't you? IIRC it was Hirohito who said something to the effect of "A rifle behind every blade of grass".

Same with the government. The elected officials are intended to be public servants and should FEAR the constituency. Not the other way around. A good portion of the basis for the fear is the simple fact that, as a population, we are armed and have them outnumbered.

[herbivor]

No, I am for freedom of all. And the biggest enemy of freedom is Govt, and if we the people have no means of defense from said govt..................... Well it ends badly

This is the common attitude amongst the gun-toting RWNJ, that Government is an enemy, something that restricts freedom, and we need to defend against an enemy. This is all in your head. The government is us. We are the people that make our own rules to live by. To say you are enemies with government is saying you are enemies with its people. Isolationism may work where you live, but not for those of us that have to live with each other.

[Ether-D]

Mr. Sleeve, Damn. I feel sorry for anyone in the room with you this morning. Maybe if you could have a rational discussion without all the profanity and name calling you might have your opinion taken seriously.

I can tell you that you can't own a rocket launcher. Why aren't you guys crying about that?

[Ether-D]

Hey ratbastage, what about Canada? They restrict guns. Why haven't they been invaded?

[Ether-D]

HHAHAHAH. Yeah read the constitution again including all the clauses. Its an ANTI SLAVERY DOCUMENT, even Fredrick Douglass advocated that position, Honest Abe credits the end of slavery to the Founders and the Constitution, via death by a 1000 cuts. Women's Suffrage well thats the amendment process at work, Constitution seems to be working just fine on both of those counts

The right to vote is what I'm referring to. It was changed when we realized it was wrong.