sorry, I meant per year
it's actually about 30,000. there were 11,000 suicides with a gun alone in 2010.
it's actually about 30,000. there were 11,000 suicides with a gun alone in 2010.
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Suicide numbers are irrelevant regarding gun control. As was demonstrated in Australia, method substitution occurs. People who want to kill themselves will kill themselves. Period.Comment
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Uh huh
Tell that to my cousin who blew his face off with a shot gun that its irrelevant.Comment
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He would have jumped off something, jumped in front of something, taken too many pills, sucked and exhaust pipe, Drove off a cliff, there are many ways that are just as easy to kill ones self.
Gun control is aimed at crime prevention (as backwards as a concept as it is), or are you taking the position of Mr Bloomberg that people should not have firearms because the govt know whats best for the rest of us and that we needed to be protected from ourselves ????
Or did someone read the new highly skewed MSN article form today?????Last edited by mrsleeve; 09-28-2013, 09:01 PM.The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de TocquevilleOriginally posted by Fusion
The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
William Pitt-Comment
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And my dad's friend's kid jumped in front of a train. Whats your point? Should we ban trains or get background checks for drivers? Dead is dead. The method is irrelevant. People who want to commit suicide will commit suicide. The people who attempt and fail are either stupid or looking for help. If you want to do a suicide attempt you don't wrap your lips around a gun barrel because you will either succede or end up with a real reason to commit suicide.
Even gun murders aren't that valuable of a stat. If you have 10k gun murders and 10k knife murders one year. You successfully ban and confiscate all guns. The following year there are 20k knife murders. Have you acheived anything? If you are in government yes, you have disarmed the populace. That is always an acheivement. And now you see the big picture. It isn't about crime. Its abou disarmament. That is why everyone will fight this out to the bitter end.
Do you guys have MADD in the states? Mothers against drunk driving. It just so happens that in Calgary police were ticketing people for drunk in public while they were waiting for cabs in front of the clubs downtown. A responsible decision to take a cab met with punishment. See it yet? I'll elaborate. MADD also pushes for lower bac limits always. There is no acceptable number above zero despite the fact that >70% of drunk driving deaths had a bac of >.15. The final nail is this. The founder of MADD left because the cause had been hijacked by neoprohibitionists. No amount of alcohol is ever acceptable. They want alcohol banned entirely.
Look at the big picture. This isn't about crime, suicide, or even mass shootings. This is about disarmament. Feinstein said if she could get enough votes to repeal the 2a and ban all guns she would.Comment
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6 million ways to die,blame guns.Comment
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I'm sorry for your loss, I lost a good friend to suicide too. Like has been said though, if someone wants to commit suicide they will find a way, no matter what. I'll keep carrying my gun, you do what you do and we'll leave it at that. This is a mental health issue not a gun issue.Originally posted by RoysneonComment
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http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056...99208133270705Ready availability of firearms is associated with an increased risk of suicide in the home. Owners of firearms should weigh their reasons for keeping a gun in the home against the possibility that it might someday be used in a suicide. (N Engl J Med 1992;327:467–72.)
I'm not claiming that this should be used to increase gun control, just that the "they would have found another way" argument isn't necessarily that true. A firearm gives an individual a quick, easy and usually pain free way out. This is a much more attractive alternative to something which could be incredibly painful to the person killing themselves.Comment
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^
Skewed logic is still skewed.
Lets look at this for a sec, the study did not take all variables into consideration. They had an axe to grind with firearms, if they were trying to be objective they would have taken into consideration all methods of suicide attempts, and consider the lethality and recoverability of each. They would have also reported suicide attempts of each and the death rates to go along with them . Since when you try and kill your self with a firearm your going to have a very high rate of success Vs a higher rate of failed attempts with some other methods. Also lets note it hard to try and off your self with a firearm if you dont own one, so your options are limited at that point.
While it is true that some methods of offing ones self are more successful than others, it does not mean the frequency of one method has been shown to be more frequent than the others. It could be equally shown, through the premiss this slated with, that areas with greater access to pharmacies or rope shops, or high bridges would also increase the frequency of suicide.
That means that this study is flawed and biased from it's core and right off the bat, we can use the same logic this is based on to say most all highway deaths occur in cars, so no one should be allowed to own cars to lower the rate of road deaths each year. ..... Silly liberals, just because you own a firearm or 2 does not mean its going to will you to use it on your self......................Last edited by mrsleeve; 09-29-2013, 06:04 PM.The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de TocquevilleOriginally posted by Fusion
The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
William Pitt-Comment
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I don't think you legitimately read the full background of this study when you launched to defend your beliefs by attacking it.
You have no reason to assume that "they have an axe to grind" and I'd wager you have more of an axe to grind because you feel the need to use baseless attacks against this study to validate your viewpoints.
Furthermore, here's another study which confirms the idea that access to firearms does increase suicide rates.EACH year more than 29,000 Americans kill themselves, making suicide the eighth leading cause of death in the nation. Despite the widespread adoption of telephone crisis lines, school-based intervention programs, and newer varieties of antidepressant medication, rates of suicide continue to increase. In the United States, more people kill themselves with guns than by all other methods combined. From 1968 through 1985, the rate of suicide involving firearms increased 36 percent, whereas the rate of suicide involving other methods remained constant. Among adolescents and young adults, rates of suicide by firearms doubled during the same period.
In the light of these facts, some suggest that limiting access to firearms could prevent many suicides. Others question this notion, arguing that if guns were less readily available, suicidal persons would simply work harder to acquire a gun or kill themselves by other means.
Although the risk of suicide varies according to age, sex, and race, the link between readily available firearms and suicide is less clear. Previous groups have studied variations in the rates of gun ownership and suicide in populations separated by geography or time. Their findings are limited, however, by the wide variety of potentially confounding variables that characterize large populations. Furthermore, hazards suggested by ecologic analysis may not hold at the level of individual households or people.
If access to firearms increases the risk of suicide, then the rate of suicide should be higher in homes with guns than in homes without guns. To determine whether this is the case, we conducted a population-based, case–control study in two geographically and demographically distinct metropolitan counties.
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All suicides involving a resident of either county that occurred between August 23, 1987, and April 30, 1990, were studied to identify those that took place in the home of the victim. Any death ruled a suicide was included, regardless of the method used. Self-inflicted injuries that were not immediately fatal were included if death followed within three months. Cases in which there was potential litigation over the official cause of death were excluded at the request of the medical examiners.
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Sixty-five percent of the case subjects had had one or more firearms in their home, as compared with 41 percent of the matched controls (crude odds ratio, 3.2; 95 percent confidence interval, 2.4 to 4.4). Handguns were kept in 49.5 percent of case households but only 23.4 percent of control households (crude odds ratio, 3.7; 95 percent confidence interval, 2.7 to 5.1). In homes with firearms, a gun was the method chosen for suicide in 86 percent of cases. In homes where firearms were not usually kept, only 6 percent of case subjects killed themselves with a gun. The last 172 case proxies to be interviewed were asked how long a gun had been kept in the victim's home. Only 5 of the 162 who answered (3 percent) reported that the gun had been obtained within two weeks of the suicide.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22408588
RESULTS:
A number of factors may influence an individual's decision regarding method in a suicide act, but there is substantial support that easy access influences the choice of method. In many countries, restrictions of access to common means of suicide has lead to lower overall suicide rates, particularly regarding suicide by firearms in USA, detoxification of domestic and motor vehicle gas in England and other countries, toxic pesticides in rural areas, barriers at jumping sites and hanging, by introducing "safe rooms" in prisons and hospitals. Moreover, decline in prescription of barbiturates and tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs), as well as limitation of drugs pack size for paracetamol and salicylate has reduced suicides by overdose, while increased prescription of SSRIs seems to have lowered suicidal rates.
CONCLUSIONS:
Restriction to means of suicide may be particularly effective in contexts where the method is popular, highly lethal, widely available, and/or not easily substituted by other similar methods. However, since there is some risk of means substitution, restriction of access should be implemented in conjunction with other suicide prevention strategies.Comment
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no, I don't think so. maybe he would have tried again later, but if he didn't have a gun laying around it wouldn't have been so easy to do. and even if he had, the results couldn't have possibly been worse.
he didn't die. that's the really fucked up part - but he may have been better off if he had. he lost his sinuses, his eye, part of his jaw, his teeth - he still has BB's in his brain, which cause him seizures. he can't taste or smell. he has a patch of skin taken from his ass where his eye used to be. he looks like a monster from some awful zombie movie. you think he was depressed before?
again, the answer to people dying is to do nothing? I'm not saying we need the NSA to scan your iris and implant a 666 chip into your forehead for tracking, but we should do nothing? because 10,000-30,000 dead people is OK? monthly/weekly mass shootings is OK? crazy people walking into a church and blowing away the priest is OK? as long as it doesn't happen to you, right?Comment
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wait...........criminals follow the law"I wanna see da boat movie"
"I got a tree on my house"Comment
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