Navy Yard Shooting

[nando]

Dealing with this conversation via emotion blinds you to Sleeve's point

huh? how was my post even a little emotional?

[BraveUlysses]

Dealing with this conversation via emotion blinds you to Sleeve's point

Sleeve is making the emotional posts here, look how worked up he is.

[Dozyproductions]

Dealing with this conversation via emotion blinds you to Sleeve's point

[nando]

This is not opinion this is fucking fact, and common sense. No amount of studies and data manipulation will trump this cold hard reality of how the universe works

wow really? that's a pretty strong statement. think about that again..

anyway, that wasn't my point in the first place - the point is, people who shouldn't have guns are getting them, and using them to kill people.

so far, the answer from the right has been to continue on as if nothing is wrong. just ignore the problem and it'll go away, right?

[BraveUlysses]

So its your car that makes you speed... or drive recklessly right???


I think its pretty much a given fact that a inanimate object cant convince, cause or course you to do ANY-FUCKING-THING!!!!!! You have to chose to do something, YOU, as in your brain has to decide to do something. Your firearm is not making you do any fucking thing you have not already chosen to do !!!!

This is not opinion this is fucking fact, and common sense. No amount of studies and data manipulation will trump this cold hard reality of how the universe works

I don't know how to spell it out any easier for you but the studies underline that accessibility affects suicide rates.

Nobody is denying that it required a personal decision to commit suicide but you seem incapable educating yourself on this issue beyond your own predefined opinion.

You really need to stop being so insecure when it comes to these discussions.

[z31maniac]

Not at all, I have a pretty large safe that only I know the combination to, that keeps my guns free from anyone other than who I want to see or touch. If I ever had a son or daughter that had a mental illness I would even try to safe proof that if I chose to own firearms.

We have had this discussion before...


Now I don't mean to make light of a tragic situation. I know its a tragic moment in more than just his life, and affects those that are close. I understand and respect that.
But it was not the guns fault it was used in the shooting. Its not like he woke up on day and said yesterday my life was awesome and today Kurt Cobain it. Writing was all over the place before that ever happened.

I guess denial is easier than accepting the truth.

It's only speculation on my part, but you've never had someone close to you take their own life. You'd be amazed at what people can hide.

With that said, I'll let you guys go back to arguing your stupid bullshit from the extremes while completely ignoring the "silent majority", ie, those of us in the realistic middle.

[mrsleeve]

So its your car that makes you speed... or drive recklessly right???


I think its pretty much a given fact that a inanimate object cant convince, cause or course you to do ANY-FUCKING-THING!!!!!! You have to chose to do something, YOU, as in your brain has to decide to do something. Your firearm is not making you do any fucking thing you have not already chosen to do !!!!

This is not opinion this is fucking fact, and common sense. No amount of studies and data manipulation will trump this cold hard reality of how the universe works

[BraveUlysses]

false premise is still false. we are trying to point that out,

What false premise? The suicide studies have much more validity than your fucking opinions do.

[mrsleeve]

false premise is still false. we are trying to point that out,

[BraveUlysses]

Once again, nobody is making that argument. Why are you (and others) unable to discern the difference between discussion and advocacy of a position?

[mrsleeve]

nando

Yes like japan that is ranked at #10 in the world, and the US is about #33 (there was about 12 suicides per 100k people in 2012 in the US) . I guess in japan Everyone must own a gun there were 21.7 suicides per 100k people occurred in 2012 . Oh wait thats right firearms are 100% banned in japan for ordinary citizens to own.

Or how about South Korea, which is #2 on the list with 31.8 self killings per 100k people, Must be lots of firearms there too. Oh shit hold the phone, getting a firearm in south Korea is difficult and your only allowed to have a hunting rifle that must be kept at the police station when its not hunting season. Must be all the suicides happen there during hunting season

[canadiankid]

Clearly, a society with a high suicide rate is something we should all strive for!

Well Japan has a high suicide rate. Their method of choice is a bleach cocktail however.

21.7 per 100k to the US 12

Canada is 11.5 fwiw.

You know, fuck it. Here is the list.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

The suicide rate isnt that high. Maybe most use guns but the overall rate is average. To use it as reason to restrict gun sales is assinine at best.

[nando]

the usage of gun-suicide rates to justify an anti-2a agenda is a manifestation of statist thought- "We know better than you how to live your life. You are not allowed to end it."

so what if guns are an effective way to check out? isn't that each persons choice? I say mind your own business and assuage your survivors' guilt another way. don't blame the tool.

Merritt Edson, CMH holder and victor of Bloody Ridge checked out by running his car in his closed garage. another reason to ban cars.

and yes, i do have personal knowledge/connection with more than one suicide.

Clearly, a society with a high suicide rate is something we should all strive for!

[BraveUlysses]

Nobody is arguing to change any laws based on suicide rates.

That's why it's hard to take you seriously--discussion of a topic is not grounds for you to launch into your terrible rants about "statists"

[canadiankid]

the usage of gun-suicide rates to justify an anti-2a agenda is a manifestation of statist thought- "We know better than you how to live your life. You are not allowed to end it."

so what if guns are an effective way to check out? isn't that each persons choice? I say mind your own business and assuage your survivors' guilt another way. don't blame the tool.

Merritt Edson, CMH holder and victor of Bloody Ridge checked out by running his car in his closed garage. another reason to ban cars.

and yes, i do have personal knowledge/connection with more than one suicide.

Interesting that you say that. I thought the same thing when my dad's friend's kid jumped in front of a train. He opted out. He decided he'd had enough. It is interesting that we owe it to society to stay alive and keep paying taxes. How much of slaves are we when we don't even have the power to end our own lives. It is the probably the 2nd most powerful form of rebellion. Number one being an actual armed rebellion. Number 2 being suicide. Saying "fuck it, im done with this shit."

To be clear. If I wanted to kill myself, I would. You could take away my guns, i would just find another way. Suicide hotlines are for people who still want to live. Guns are for those who don't. Guns don't cause people to commit suicide. They just ensure success......most of the time.