Navy Yard Shooting

[mrsleeve]

I still fail to see how one of my firearms is going to convince me to shoot my self with it. That's like saying my fork made me eat that whole apple pie in one sitting.

If I was to kill myself it would be with an od, I would not want to leave shuch a mess ad traumatic scene for my loved ones to have to deal with

[cale]

Why would that circumstance change anything? It was most likely his own gun.

Because legal ownership by stable individuals of useful weapons such as shotguns and rifles are not an issue. Freak accidents are going to happen yes, but what do you propose should be done about it? I was merely playing devils advocate by posting the link I did, I don't think suicides should be a reason to restrict those of a stable mental state from owning.

[Vedubin01]

It was most likely his own gun.

I find it almost funny that people would like to blame guns for an attempted suicide rather than putting the blame on the family. The family knew this person was not stable yet allowed them to own a firearm?

More like the fingers should be placed on the family and not the gun!

[z31maniac]

I find it almost funny that people would like to blame guns for an attempted suicide rather than putting the blame on the family. The family knew this person was not stable yet allowed them to own a firearm?

More like the fingers should be placed on the family and not the gun!

Ahh, so you're in favor of thought police that take away rights without having committed a crime?

[nando]

I find it almost funny that people would like to blame guns for an attempted suicide rather than putting the blame on the family. The family knew this person was not stable yet allowed them to own a firearm?

More like the fingers should be placed on the family and not the gun!

clearly you've skipped over the part where suicides by gun were far higher in homes where a gun was available than where it was not, and that more suicides used guns than any other method.

it's staring you right in the face, but you don't want to believe it.

[nando]

Because legal ownership by stable individuals of useful weapons such as shotguns and rifles are not an issue. Freak accidents are going to happen yes, but what do you propose should be done about it? I was merely playing devils advocate by posting the link I did, I don't think suicides should be a reason to restrict those of a stable mental state from owning.

I think that is the point - aside from suicides, there's nothing to stop some crazy person from buying a bunch of guns and shooting up a school. the NRA camp is against ANY changes that would try and stop that from happening.

there's almost zero spending in this country for people with mental illnesses as well - they'd probably be classified as part of the 47% that everyone on the right looks down on.

[mrsleeve]

clearly you've skipped over the part where suicides by gun were far higher in homes where a gun was available than where it was not, and that more suicides used guns than any other method.

it's staring you right in the face, but you don't want to believe it.

I think you mean successful attempts. Duhhh its hard to kill your self with a firearm if you dont own one. Also a firearm is an effective and reliable means of doing so. If you try to kill your self will pills and fail that does not count as a suicide now does it...... People fail at suicide at a much higher rate with other methods than those that use a firearm.


So again I still dont see how owning guns makes you more prone to killing your self. This is just a convenient way to package the stats to push the agenda....

[Vedubin01]

Ahh, so you're in favor of thought police that take away rights without having committed a crime?

Not at all, I have a pretty large safe that only I know the combination to, that keeps my guns free from anyone other than who I want to see or touch. If I ever had a son or daughter that had a mental illness I would even try to safe proof that if I chose to own firearms.

We have had this discussion before...


Now I don't mean to make light of a tragic situation. I know its a tragic moment in more than just his life, and affects those that are close. I understand and respect that.
But it was not the guns fault it was used in the shooting. Its not like he woke up on day and said yesterday my life was awesome and today Kurt Cobain it. Writing was all over the place before that ever happened.

[cale]

So again I still dont see how owning guns makes you more prone to killing your self.

Then perhaps you should be more focused on addressing why you're unable to grasp a relatively simple conclusion to a study which focused on the statistics of gun related suicide, rather than arguing something you self admittedly "still don't see". The study was not skewed, it was an accurate representation of the stats, you simply disagree with it's findings. Fortunately, truthfulness and accuracy is not measured in units of sleeve logic.

[2761377]

the usage of gun-suicide rates to justify an anti-2a agenda is a manifestation of statist thought- "We know better than you how to live your life. You are not allowed to end it."

so what if guns are an effective way to check out? isn't that each persons choice? I say mind your own business and assuage your survivors' guilt another way. don't blame the tool.

Merritt Edson, CMH holder and victor of Bloody Ridge checked out by running his car in his closed garage. another reason to ban cars.

and yes, i do have personal knowledge/connection with more than one suicide.

[Exodus_2pt0]

Umm... Isn't this thread about the Navy Yard Shooting?

No one commit suicide there.

[canadiankid]

the usage of gun-suicide rates to justify an anti-2a agenda is a manifestation of statist thought- "We know better than you how to live your life. You are not allowed to end it."

so what if guns are an effective way to check out? isn't that each persons choice? I say mind your own business and assuage your survivors' guilt another way. don't blame the tool.

Merritt Edson, CMH holder and victor of Bloody Ridge checked out by running his car in his closed garage. another reason to ban cars.

and yes, i do have personal knowledge/connection with more than one suicide.

Interesting that you say that. I thought the same thing when my dad's friend's kid jumped in front of a train. He opted out. He decided he'd had enough. It is interesting that we owe it to society to stay alive and keep paying taxes. How much of slaves are we when we don't even have the power to end our own lives. It is the probably the 2nd most powerful form of rebellion. Number one being an actual armed rebellion. Number 2 being suicide. Saying "fuck it, im done with this shit."

To be clear. If I wanted to kill myself, I would. You could take away my guns, i would just find another way. Suicide hotlines are for people who still want to live. Guns are for those who don't. Guns don't cause people to commit suicide. They just ensure success......most of the time.

[BraveUlysses]

Nobody is arguing to change any laws based on suicide rates.

That's why it's hard to take you seriously--discussion of a topic is not grounds for you to launch into your terrible rants about "statists"

[nando]

the usage of gun-suicide rates to justify an anti-2a agenda is a manifestation of statist thought- "We know better than you how to live your life. You are not allowed to end it."

so what if guns are an effective way to check out? isn't that each persons choice? I say mind your own business and assuage your survivors' guilt another way. don't blame the tool.

Merritt Edson, CMH holder and victor of Bloody Ridge checked out by running his car in his closed garage. another reason to ban cars.

and yes, i do have personal knowledge/connection with more than one suicide.

Clearly, a society with a high suicide rate is something we should all strive for!

[canadiankid]

Clearly, a society with a high suicide rate is something we should all strive for!

Well Japan has a high suicide rate. Their method of choice is a bleach cocktail however.

21.7 per 100k to the US 12

Canada is 11.5 fwiw.

You know, fuck it. Here is the list.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

The suicide rate isnt that high. Maybe most use guns but the overall rate is average. To use it as reason to restrict gun sales is assinine at best.