Shutdown

[z31maniac]

I never said anything like that

the closing of the parks is a sideshow compared to the damage the GOP is inflicting (and trying to inflict) on the economy.

How does it make you feel that people like Bachmann are happy that the government shut down? the fact that it was planned almost a year ago by billionaire plutocrats? none of that means anything to you? the fact that they are so terrified that ACA may be a success, they are willing to do anything, including crippling the US economy and government, to stop it?

or are they for improving the economy? except for when they aren't, of course.

Bachmann? I couldn't care less about her.

I'm not an R in the slightest.

[z31maniac]

Agree, it would set a terrible precedent if they cave in on this. We need to get rid of the debt ceiling permanently so that we're not put into yearly episodes of complete uncertainty as the minority stake in the house holds the country hostage.



False flag!

Seriously? Just let the US continue to increase the debt level ad infinitum?

[mrsleeve]

more sinister than a default of US obligations? on purpose?

I can't imagine it being worse than that. :(

Well that would cause a lot of people to dump all those us tresuries form the qe's and flood the markets with them. There by killing the dollars status as the worlds reserve currency. And in doing so collapse the buying power of the dollar with all those dollars flooding back it would likelly force a market crash like the world has never known.

Maybe .........................................

[nando]

I'm very aware of what could happen. :(

but, you don't have people in the democrat party saying, a default could be a good thing.. only people on the extreme fringe of the GOP are saying stuff like that. and, it's their manufactured crisis - it's not the president's job to pass budgets and raise the debt ceiling. they KNOW he won't budge on ACA (for a number of reasons, including setting a precedent).

All they'd have to do is bring the senate bill to a vote and this would be over. it seems like there are enough in the GOP who have a brain, even though the speaker is denying it..

[BraveUlysses]

Seriously? Just let the US continue to increase the debt level ad infinitum?

I didn't say that.

Do you really think we will ever get to a revenue-neutral government?

[nando]

Seriously? Just let the US continue to increase the debt level ad infinitum?

like they have been for almost 100 years?

anyway, yeah, nobody ever said that.

but it's not really about the deficit, to me. to me, it's about using the US and even world economy as a weapon to further their own narrow agenda. it doesn't matter to me what the end goal is, because the ends do not justify the means.

[tjts1]

I think its sad that the Republicans have already given up all hope for the 2016 Presidential election. Last time they pulled this shit they lost control of House too. Why are Republicans so eager to shoot themselves in the foot? I don't get it.

[gwb72tii]

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a Sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. ...Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here'. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and Grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."
SENATOR BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, MARCH 2006

[nando]

so, defaulting would somehow solve that?

[mrmckie]

Next time you see a member of the military, ask them when their next pay check is coming. Maybe that'll help you notice.

You mistook my comment....i meant it as those fuckers aren't/weren't doing shyt on a daily basis anyway other than trying to line their own pockets, even if there wasn't a government shut down. Both parties.

And of course it's messed up that those employed by the gov't won't get paid and those that aren't doing their job still get a 6 figure salary. We can bitch and complain all we want. To me they don't care about anyone other than themselves really. The gov't will still do whatever they want unless the right palms are greesed then you can get what you want..:loco:

[nando]

I hadn't realized how much those guys get paid per year. something like $175k for congress. WTF?

[mrsleeve]

so, defaulting would somehow solve that?

well you have to remember that if the ceiling is not bumped up, that does not equate to a default. There will still be tax income coming in that will be more than enough to cover the interest payments on our "national notes" and cover a lot of the other bills that are part of the govt.

It means they will not be able to continue to spend as much money as they have been and some things will have to be cut out period. This also means that congress and the executive will have to CHOSE TO DEFAULT and not pay on the debts .

I am not advocating for this though. I really think though a further bump should be tied to a surplus budget with the balance to be paid on the debts. There needs to be some serious cuts made, but all any of them seem to do is talk about spending more and more and more *cough* 0 care *cough*

[ficklerx]

There needs to be some serious cuts made.

I have no confidence in Washington successfully working together to accomplish significant improvements regarding spending. They are all too busy looking out for their first priority.....being re-elected.

Cutting spending would negatively affect one party and THAT can't happen. Raising revenue through taxation would negatively affect the other party and THAT can't happen.

Both is needed but I don't see it as a possibility. And, I do not advocate spending more of my income to maintain the status quo.

[gwb72tii]

The 14th amendment prohibits defaulting on US debt! So the prez and congress really have no choice in the matter. Payment is mandatory and cannot be rescinded by the messiah or congress. And social security payments are mandated by federal law. So both will be paid no matter what.
Debt interest and principal payments are roughly 10% of revenues to the govt, so default is not a possibility anyways. The argument is about allowing democrats to increase future spending.

[z31maniac]

I didn't say that.

Do you really think we will ever get to a revenue-neutral government?

What do you think they would do? In the last 13 years, the idiots in Congress have more than doubled the national debt.

I think its sad that the Republicans have already given up all hope for the 2016 Presidential election. Last time they pulled this shit they lost control of House too. Why are Republicans so eager to shoot themselves in the foot? I don't get it.

I honestly have no idea why they are so beholden to the religious right.

I bet 2016 will be our first woman president.