Shutdown

[2761377]

Im sure whatever hate blog you found this at is a reliable source of facts...

apparently you're too lazy to click the link? or supply contradictory facts?

[MF DOOM]

I call bullshit on this. If he paid $250 a month for a family it was shitty insurance with a super high deductible that only covered meniscus tears from leprechaun fighting. $1000 a month is the going rate for a reasonable family plan of someone in there mid 30s. Ask me how I know.

Yes, go ahead and call bullshit on something you know nothing about.

[Dozyproductions]

A single healthy person can barely get that price with any low deductible. Heck mine alone would of been %600 of that. I need to figure my figures now though from the ACA.

[BraveUlysses]

apparently you're too lazy to click the link? or supply contradictory facts?

There are no facts to contradict. Just another blog blaming Obama for one more thing.

[mrsleeve]

I'll indulge you.

IF the individual mandate has been ruled on and considered constitutional, what else could they possibly rule on to make Obamacare unconstitutional?

well to start with as the law was written a mandate from congress that people MUST buy something or pay a fine is unconstitutional under the commerce clause (as the law was written). Though it was up held as constitutional if the penalty was a TAX and levied under the Congresses tax and spend powers. This sets a precedent of being able to tax us for ANYTHING, slippery slope is getting a little bit steep too.

It seems I had missed the decision of the SCOTUS ordered rehearing of Liberty law schools appeal in 4th circuit. That was back in july of this year, and to be honest I must have missed or just plain forgotten that with the ruling last year the SCOTUS rejected all other pending appeals. I have been way too busy to keep up like I really should have *eats crow*

"The Affordable Care Act's requirement that certain individuals pay a financial penalty for not obtaining health insurance may reasonably be characterized as a tax. Because the Constitution permits such a tax, it is not our role to forbid it, or to pass upon its wisdom or fairness.” - Justice John Roberts wrote in the court’s majority opinion.


I can see this opening up a big can of worms for other things the ruling class wish to "mandate" us citizens do.



Doom: Was that H/C premium rate of your parents their portion of a employer provided H/C plan with the employer paying the rest??? If so is your fathers employer dropping the benefit and dumping your family into the 0 Care exchanges????

[rwh11385]

To say the least, the shutdown has really pissed me off and a clear sign of the stupidity that is going on at the Capital and also the GOP. It's clear the House doesn't give a crap of what their voters want and only care about their personal extreme goals and the desires of the Super PACs. We as the populace are the backseat to political machine that is supposed to represent us and the problem is a good amount of people think that their views being indoctrinated by their biased and simplistic "news" outlet is their own instead of brainwashed by the influencers who use them to get what they want by making the viewers think it is what they should support.

If we actually care about freedom and personal choice, then we actually need to be educated and think logically, instead of ingesting utter bullshit from think thanks funded by those who pay for the messages and "facts" they want published. Sure, bread and circuses isn't good but neither are puppetmasters getting the populace to defend them.

the ruling class wish to "mandate" us citizens do.ing the benefit and dumping your family into the 0 Care exchanges????

My biggest question is how the classic archetype of the ruling elites dictating what society should progress to any different than the Koch brothers attempting to rule the country with Americans for Prosperity? Instead of thinking for themselves, or demanding an alternative to ACA or coming up with other solutions to the problems we are facing with rising healthcare costs, an aging population, a new workforce that struggles to pay for its retirees and their pensions, the RWNJs eat right out of the hands of those who benefit from them being lemmings.

The country ought to focus on facts, have grown up discussions of solutions and strategies, and use logic and reason, rather than childish power struggles and a greater divide that prevents us from accomplishing anything - but especially a budget or having the federal government be operational.

To argue about Obamacare now is distracting from the point that 72% of Americans disapprove of the shutdown as a result of disagreements about ACA. Even the plurality of Republicans are against this (49% vs. 48%) It's the Tea Partiers that support it - 57% of them. And rightly so, more people blame the House and Republicans for the shutdown. They tried and failed 40 times to overturn it. They said the 2012 election was necessary to overturn it and the American people responded by electing Obama and having the GOP loses seats in both chambers of Congress. Yet, the House Republicans don't seem to give a rat's ass about that. Regardless of how effective or ineffective ACA is, the House acted against the interests of the country and put their own in front of it. But of course, their interests are really of the lobbyists and the Super PACs, not the voters. They only coincide when the voters eat up the bull that the Super PACs spew.

The Tea Partiers even go so far as attacking their own party who aren't for the shutdown and call them out. And they threaten to take them down in the next election... only thing is they do defeat the more moderate people in the primaries but get slaughtered usually in the general election. And Republican numbers are on the decline, being replaced by more and more independents. The Tea Party movement may have gathered together the extremists but pushed out the rest, weakening the Republican party as a whole and made it pander to the outrageous of the hard right. Attacking your own is not how to regain power, but they seem too stupid to care.

Let's hope for a solution and the downfall for the Tea Party, for the good of the country and the GOP. Else, there will just have to eventually be a middle party that rises from the ashes and Tea Party will be an extreme and vocal minority that doesn't play nice with others. But maybe enough GOP will bail from the Tea Party sinking ship and we'll avoid more hardship.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-06/some-tea-party-backed-lawmakers-yield-in-obamacare-fight.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/10/05/did-house-democrats-find-way-to-get-a-vote-on-a-clean-budget-resolution-and-end-the-shutdown/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-06/republican-insurgents-forget-their-political-abcs.html

One way or the other, the nation should move on from rocky course it's been on, with the complete inability for politicians to be mature enough to effectively do their jobs. The parties will have to adapt or be replaced, as the fresh blood of voting age diverts greatly from the generation nearing their life expectancy.



The generational profiles don't show a real change in the numbers of liberals, a few points away from a third... but a replacement of Republicans with independents. And Republicans attacking independents as liberals won't help their case either. Nor will attacking their own party. But maybe a majority in the middle will pave the path for an intelligent mix of social liberty and fiscal responsibility. Or at least I can hope.

[einhander]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-1...-shutdown.html

What's your point?

The defense industry is among the biggest, most inefficient, least accountable sectors of the American economy....funded mostly by tax dollars.

[MF DOOM]

A single healthy person can barely get that price with any low deductible. Heck mine alone would of been %600 of that. I need to figure my figures now though from the ACA.

Are you kidding? Does whoever you work for supply coverage? Or are you buying yours elsewhere?

Doom: Was that H/C premium rate of your parents their portion of a employer provided H/C plan with the employer paying the rest??? If so is your fathers employer dropping the benefit and dumping your family into the 0 Care exchanges????

Ill give him a call tomorrow and ask. I know it was part of an employer plan and im pretty sure they havent dropped it but im not 100% positive.

[nando]

What's your point?

The defense industry is among the biggest, most inefficient, least accountable sectors of the American economy....funded mostly by tax dollars.

I think his point is it will affect the economy.

the GOP is all about jobs, until they aren't.

[BraveUlysses]

What's your point?

The defense industry is among the biggest, most inefficient, least accountable sectors of the American economy....funded mostly by tax dollars.

A+++ would agree again

[Dozyproductions]

Are you kidding? Does whoever you work for supply coverage? Or are you buying yours elsewhere?



Ill give him a call tomorrow and ask. I know it was part of an employer plan and im pretty sure they havent dropped it but im not 100% positive.

I don't have work to cover for me.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/15/smallbusiness/health-insurance/index.html

[nando]

Follow the money

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/10/06...agewanted=all&

[BraveUlysses]

Fuck these toolbags and all those who defend them forever and ever.

[rwh11385]

Follow the money

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/10/06...agewanted=all&

From a nice follow-up:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/07/opinion/krugman-the-boehner-bunglers.html?_r=0

As Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein put it last year in their book, “It’s Even Worse Than It Looks,” the G.O.P. has become “an insurgent outlier — ideologically extreme; contemptuous of the inherited social and economic policy regime; scornful of compromise; unpersuaded by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition.”

It has been obvious for years that the modern Republican Party is no longer capable of thinking seriously about policy. Whether the issue is climate change or inflation, party members believe what they want to believe, and any contrary evidence is dismissed as a hoax, the product of vast liberal conspiracies.

For a while the party was able to compartmentalize, to remain savvy and realistic about politics even as it rejected objectivity everywhere else. But this wasn’t sustainable. Sooner or later, the party’s attitude toward policy — we listen only to people who tell us what we want to hear, and attack the bearers of uncomfortable news — was bound to infect political strategy, too.

Remember what happened in the 2012 election — not the fact that Mitt Romney lost, but the fact that all the political experts around him apparently had no inkling that he was likely to lose. Polls overwhelmingly pointed to an Obama victory, but Republican analysts denounced the polls as “skewed” and attacked the media outlets reporting those polls for their alleged liberal bias.

Unfortunately for all of us, even the shock of electoral defeat wasn’t enough to burst the G.O.P. bubble; it’s still a party dominated by wishful thinking, and all but impervious to inconvenient facts. And now that party’s leaders have bungled themselves into a corner.

Everybody not inside the bubble realizes that Mr. Obama can’t and won’t negotiate under the threat that the House will blow up the economy if he doesn’t — any concession at all would legitimize extortion as a routine part of politics. Yet Republican leaders are just beginning to get a clue, and so far clearly have no idea how to back down. Meanwhile, the government is shut, and a debt crisis looms. Incompetence can be a terrible thing.

Totally hit the nail on the head with all of it.

[Jrey]

O rly?

So he shuts down all this but a golf course? yeah sounds good Mr President after all you are the "president" this is gotta be the most ridiculous thing that this government has done :hitler:

Obama’s military golf courses are open, even while the military bases shut down the grocery stores. What is Obama’s response to the shutdown? He goes golfing, of course.

http://www.capitalisminstitute.org/obamas-golf-courses/

I find this dumb :loco:

http://www.capitalisminstitute.org/obama-grand-canyon/

Obama has ordered the Grand Canyon to stay closed, even after the state of Arizona and local businesses have offered to cover the costs necessary to keep it open. In other words, the shutdown isn’t about the money — it’s about hurting the American people just because he can.