Good gun control policy in CA

[mrsleeve]

^
hes just trolling and being a tool bag. Hes an elitist city slicker that thinks his self perceived position of moral superiority and way of life is the only correct way to go through life. based in his posts anyway Just like our long time troll Tijst or how ever he spells it.

BTW just because you initiate a conversation and get a response does not mean you played the "simpletons".

[illest318i]

Also, hunting is lame.

LOL what is it with you and hunting is lame?

[einhander]

Slammins was clever and based on historical fact, your arguments and this law are based on piss poor logic, and are a means to an end no more no less.

Yes, but I baited all of you simpletons.

Furthermore, there's is no logic in this entire sub-forum. It's one giant cluster fuck of poorly written op-eds.

Also, hunting is lame.

[mrsleeve]

Slammins was clever and based on historical fact, your arguments and this law are based on piss poor logic, and are a means to an end no more no less.


But farb are they building Wind mills where the 14 reaming CA condors live. I wonder how many Turkey buzzards or Raptors and Eagles or Falcons suffer a similar fate with getting a free scavenged meal. I dont see anyone championing for them.

So the point to take away from all this is the lawmakers in CA are willing to gut a multibillion dollar a year industry (HUNTING/Fishing) Licensees generate 3.6B for the state annually ALONE. All because a few birds that have been dieing off for a long while now died prematurely. Willing to let the populations of game animals get out of hand and cause more harm than currently, willing to have more game animals suffer and not be recovered as often and running around wounded from piss poor projectiles. GOT IT seems way more humane that way, chalk one up for the greenies and WWF tards, way to go.

[Farbin Kaiber]

So, what I find ironic is the claim that it's to protect the predatory bird population, while simultaneously, wind farms in California are filing for permits to annually kill migratory/predatory birds that are on the Endangered/Protected Species lists.

Fuck, I knew California was a stupid place.

[agent]

When you have to tell people your thread is a troll, it's no longer a troll.

[einhander]

Slamin with the best troll of the thread

My thread is the troll of the thread, Cletus.

[mrsleeve]

Slamin with the best troll of the thread

[slammin.e28]

Lead is very good for everyone and anyone. Hell, the ancient Romans knew of this and built their entire plumbing systems with lead pipes! This talk of banning lead is just to hamper the holistic medical benefits of a great element in favor of pills and medications. It's probably all rooted in pharmaceutical lobbying.

[BraveUlysses]

so is having a fixation on E30 BMW's. oh wait, you don't have one.


the lead hunting ammo ban is not about hunting, and will not accomplish it's stated goal of increasing condor populations. metallic lead as found in bullets is indigestable, and the idea that condors ingest spent bullets is laughable. the california condor is already extinct- the andean condor females released decades ago have diluted the DNA of the california condor population to the point that the average bird is 40% andean in heritage.

it is the incremental first step to make illegal all lead ammunition. since Heller the anti-2a movement has realized the ironclad right to own guns in common usage will not be overturned. their answer? restrict ammunition instead.

my son shot his first deer september 21. we dropped the deer off in Bishop to be processed that day. this saturday is my kamikaze run there and back to pick up the meat. I'll be driving my '91 318iS.

Another bullshit post by this nutbag who has no evidence to back his assertions.

http://www.ventanaws.org/species_condors_lead/

Enjoy living in California and complaining about it constantly. We really don't have any fucks to give about your terrible perspective on any subject, ever.

[mrsleeve]

I dont know enough about ammo to know the answer to that question. How are they worse than lead?

Have there been studies that prove lead bullets poison the environment or contaminate drinking water?

Lead is a pretty serious toxic substance, i can see the concern, but what is the concern from going lead free? Are there no good alternatives? Cost? Effectiveness? The electonics industry started going lead free more than a decade ago.

Well the best small arms Armor piercing projectiles (outside of depleted Uranium) have tungsten cores thanks to its density and the fact it so hard. Not to mention tungsten is very expensive. Having A/P rounds is considered a big no no. Sure there is a great lead alternative GOLD similar density and malleability.................

You can use machined solid brass bullets as well but those and most other "alternative" materials are not really humane for hunting purpose as there is little to no expansion on impact. This means there is a little entry hole and slightly bigger exit hole as a though and though over penetration situation with little energy imparted to the target. As opposed to little hole and no exit or very massive exit hole with all or most of the that energy dumped into the target with traditional lead projectiles tendency to expand on impact increasing interactive surface area (think like how a race car breaks up to dissipate energy away from the driver, just in reverse kinda) creating a much larger permanent and temporary wound cavities tearing more shit up to ensure a faster more humane kill if your not a perfect shot . Not to mention the alternatives are much more expensive, rare, and harder which is very destructive on barrels when launched out of a steel tube that fraction of an inch smaller than the projectile it self at 1000 -3000FPS and 200,000ish RPM. Also most of them are not as heavy so they tend to bleed off kinetic energy off faster in flight, there by reducing range and accuracy in general not to mention in adverse weather conditions. Talk to water foul hunters that used to use old school lead shot, and have been forced by law to switch over to Stainless by and larg. The performance is not there like with the lead, this is one place I kinda agree with the change over, because nearly all that lead would end up in a water way, where there is a potential for some reactivity even though a small one.

Lead is dangerous in a vaporized form (old timey auto exhaust) or when soldering with it and when its been processed into other things and in very small particulates (like paint). When its in its normal state like when in a bullet its very very stable, and nonreactive. Its very insoluble in water and anything else other than very strong acids. The only real study I have read was the one out of CA that makes the claim the condors were dieing form hunters using lead ammo, and a couple of military ranges that were in use since WWI and have had all kinds of lead and high explosives and who knows what else pounded into them for nearly a century. So in small 200ish grain chunks flung into the woods your not going to see any issue with toxicity, or even a family shooting area out at the farm. Like I said there is a exception to that, high volume long established shooting ranges, and there are companies that mine them to recover the lead with in them for the scrap value, my BIL nearly bought one such small family run outfit that did this from a couple that was wanting to retire.

[nando]

I dont know enough about ammo to know the answer to that question. How are they worse than lead?

Have there been studies that prove lead bullets poison the environment or contaminate drinking water?

Lead is a pretty serious toxic substance, i can see the concern, but what is the concern from going lead free? Are there no good alternatives? Cost? Effectiveness? The electonics industry started going lead free more than a decade ago.

[mrsleeve]

^
thats it right there folks, the greenies and envirocommies have tried to get the EPA to ban/regulate lead in all types of ammo for any purpose at the federal level for years but to no avail. So they have gone to the Mecca for their ilks mindset to get the precedent enacted, with some success it seems . Lead in its normal state ( you know the state that projectiles are in ) is highly stable and INSOLUBLE so the argument it will poison the environment is void. While a high traffic range is a different case, many of those ranges have outside contractors come into "mine" their backstops to reclaim the lead for the scrap value of the lead every so often. (IIRC some states actually require this for a commercial shooting facility)


Nice to see the Cass Sunstein Ideology is alive and well in the population of todays college kids.

You would all be bitching and moaning when you cant drive your car 34 feet with out hitting some large wild life, or see them all starving everywhere spreading disease because there is not enough for all them to eat. Or then would complain that there are too many large predators roaming around in surburbia snatching and eatting your precious fluffy and srcat out of your back yard off the string or out of the fence as they cant get away and are much easier to catch than wild prey. We would have to let them go unchecked again in an effort to control the Herbivor populations to a more natural level.

Only those that have never truly attempted to hunt large game use the poor defenseless/Unfair arguments. After all there are millions of hunters armed with the latest gear, firearms,clothing money can buy, every year to give them every advantage only to return empty handed for the season. Myself included some years. When you switch to other metals that have a similar density you get much harder alloys, that dont expand as well, and thereby dont impart as much energy into the target rather just pass though it. They have more a hole punching effect at any range, than expanding and delivering the energy into the target, that allows for a little more room for error for something other than perfect shot placement or unexpected prey movement during time of flight.

Do you really want people in mass to have copper/ zinc and copper washed Tungsten core ammo????? I will let you figure that one out

[2761377]

Hunting is lame.

so is having a fixation on E30 BMW's. oh wait, you don't have one.


the lead hunting ammo ban is not about hunting, and will not accomplish it's stated goal of increasing condor populations. metallic lead as found in bullets is indigestable, and the idea that condors ingest spent bullets is laughable. the california condor is already extinct- the andean condor females released decades ago have diluted the DNA of the california condor population to the point that the average bird is 40% andean in heritage.

it is the incremental first step to make illegal all lead ammunition. since Heller the anti-2a movement has realized the ironclad right to own guns in common usage will not be overturned. their answer? restrict ammunition instead.

my son shot his first deer september 21. we dropped the deer off in Bishop to be processed that day. this saturday is my kamikaze run there and back to pick up the meat. I'll be driving my '91 318iS.

[tjts1]

Hunting is lame.