Wow. Why is this thread still alive?!

[einhander]

Honestly, can you go more than three or four posts without (mis)quoting someone? Your quote about valor and discretion, as Shakespeare originally wrote it, was meant ironically. It was a joke. Falstaff was pretending to be dead.

Back on topic: We've not only beat this dead horse, we've set its mangled corpse on fire, then dragged it through the streets.

I'm out.

[accident]

The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground. - Thomas Jefferson

Most bad government has grown out of too much government. - Thomas Jefferson

History, in general, only informs us what bad government is. - Thomas Jefferson

"They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

-Benjamin Franklin

[einhander]

"They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

-Benjamin Franklin

Franklin wrote that in the context of a tax debate. He was being told not to tax locals to pay for defenses against Indian attacks. The people telling him was the state assembly of Pennsylvania. You cannot simply take the quote without the context because we don't actually know of old Ben meant it the way some right-wing hooligans mean it today.

Now I'm really out.

[mrsleeve]

Honestly, can you go more than three or four posts without (mis)quoting someone? Your quote about valor and discretion, as Shakespeare originally wrote it, was meant ironically. It was a joke. Falstaff was pretending to be dead.

Back on topic: We've not only beat this dead horse, we've set its mangled corpse on fire, then dragged it through the streets.

I'm out.

Discretion being the greater part of valor, is not just a Shakespeare quote, it has been exemplified countless times over the last few 100 years and on most occasions we will never know about it. I would urge you to read the book "a higher call" its a detailed account of one of the more famous ones ......................

Just because you can do something does not always mean you should

[z31maniac]

ITT

Hyperbole and conjecture

[agent]

Relevant:

[LSM3]

Its sad that schools have come to this.....and a kid stabbed 20 people at his school today in PA. Imagine if someone would have called and said a student had a knife on him and he wanted to stab students. Some of us feel ok with police coming in and searching students for the CHANCE of finding that knife and possibly stopping this person. For some of you nothing would have changed and the same 20 kids would have been stabbed. But at least kids rights wouldnt have been "violated". Ask those kids in the hospital what they think..

[Exodus_2pt0]

I used to carry a knife in school every day.

Never went on a killing spree, but I guess I should have been arrested.

[LSM3]

I used to carry a knife in school every day.

Never went on a killing spree, but I guess I should have been arrested.

Red Herring

[mrsleeve]

Red Herring

How so, I used to have a chain saw in the back of my truck in the tool box, along with many other tools, including knives, and so did most of the other kids and none of us went on a stabby stabby spree, this blaming of the tool is the actual red hearing in the debate.

[einhander]

No one is blaming the tool.

Stop missing points, will ya?

[LSM3]

How so, I used to have a chain saw in the back of my truck in the tool box, along with many other tools, including knives, and so did most of the other kids and none of us went on a stabby stabby spree, this blaming of the tool is the actual red hearing in the debate.

Logical fallacy[edit]
As an informal fallacy, the red herring falls into a broad class of relevance fallacies. Unlike the strawman, which is premised on a distortion of the other party's position,[2] the red herring is a seemingly plausible, though ultimately irrelevant, diversionary tactic.[3] According to the Oxford English Dictionary, a red herring may be intentional, or unintentional; it does not necessarily mean a conscious intent to mislead.[1]

The expression is mainly used to assert that an argument is not relevant to the issue being discussed. For example, "I think that we should make the academic requirements stricter for students. I recommend that you support this because we are in a budget crisis and we do not want our salaries affected." The second sentence, though used to support the first sentence, does not address that topic.

We were talking about 4th amendment in regards to schools and threats. You brought up that you brought a knife to school every day and didn't stab anyone then said we are blaming the tool. WTF does that have to do with searching students if a threat is called in? Thats why it's a RED HERRING.

So your stance is because you carried a knife when you were young that students should not be searched during a school threat??? That Doesn't make sense does it??? Try staying on topic.

You guys are just throwing up talking points hoping one sticks.

No one said the knife is at fault. The point that if some had called and told the the school that a student had a knife and wanted to hurt students you guys feel that the students should not be searched. Therefore the stabbing would have not been stopped. Is that a correct statement?

[ParsedOut]

What if it had been a gun? There would be cries for more gun control and that would "solve the problem" of these mentally disturbed people causing harm to others. Knife control anyone? Should we be required to obtain a permit and register all sharp and pointy objects? Cut our tomatoes with a baseball bat? Oh wait, those can be dangerous too. That's how you do diversionary and hyperbole folks.

Back on topic, what would stop someone from calling in a "knife threat" or "lighter threat" or "big rock threat" on a daily basis causing a halt to all normal education while the police search everyone's stuff? I'd say if a threat was called in pointing out a specific student, that would be a more prudent use of time and resources seeing as how our students in public schools are legally subject to said search. Searching EVERYONE anytime a tip/threat is called in is just overboard, I guess that's where I draw the line. YMMV.

[LSM3]

What if it had been a gun? There would be cries for more gun control and that would "solve the problem" of these mentally disturbed people causing harm to others. Knife control anyone? Should we be required to obtain a permit and register all sharp and pointy objects? Cut our tomatoes with a baseball bat? Oh wait, those can be dangerous too. That's how you do diversionary and hyperbole folks.

Back on topic, what would stop someone from calling in a "knife threat" or "lighter threat" or "big rock threat" on a daily basis causing a halt to all normal education while the police search everyone's stuff? I'd say if a threat was called in pointing out a specific student, that would be a more prudent use of time and resources seeing as how our students in public schools are legally subject to said search. Searching EVERYONE anytime a tip/threat is called in is just overboard, I guess that's where I draw the line. YMMV.

That's all I asked for. That's your opinion and it's just as valid as mine and I totally understand where your coming from. It's a fine line.

[z31maniac]

That's all I asked for. That's your opinion and it's just as valid as mine and I totally understand where your coming from. It's a fine line.

Actually one opinion isn't as valid as another.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/valid

However, you are well within your rights to be wrong.