No one needs 15 rounds

[marshallnoise]

So your definition of a Vigilante is someone who shoots BACK at a person trying to KILL other people? You should look up the definition of Vigilante. Again for the 2nd time. I hope I never use mine but if I seem a gunman trying to kill women, children ANY innocent person im not going to turn and RUN. If that makes me "Giddy to use my gun" then so be it.

How come you ignore the potential for other loss of life? It is like you don't even think that is a possibility and you'll be able to win the battle every time? Discretion is the better part of valor, no?

[LSM3]

Well, your attitude sure sends a signal to me that you are looking for a threat to get involved with. A vigilante goes out of their way to stop a threat.

If you find yourself in an active shooter situation, I would expect you to be all "Oh Goody!!! I get to use my gun!"

So your definition of a Vigilante is someone who shoots BACK at a person trying to KILL other people? You should look up the definition of Vigilante. Again for the 2nd time. I hope I never use mine but if I seem a gunman trying to kill women, children ANY innocent person im not going to turn and RUN. If that makes me "Giddy to use my gun" then so be it.

[ParsedOut]

Well hopefully your family is never in a situation where you are not around to protect them and a person with the ability to protect them has YOUR attitude. WHY DO I HAVE TO HELP THAT CHILD AND MOTHER? THEY ARE NOT MY FAMILY. Fucking disgusting. COWARDICE

Not that it's any of your business, but my wife also carries. She can defend herself and our kids just fine thank you very much. If you're concerned about the well being of your family when you're not around, don't plan to rely on others (police or armed citizens). Cowardice are the people who refuse (afraid or ignorant) to take their own self-defense seriously.

[marshallnoise]

Yes cause a Sacramento politician would be in favor of CCW AND using it to protect others??? Do you actually read what you write?

Oh, I do. But a former LEO official would have the same position you are taking, which is fare more extreme than a rational person would take. Either way, you use bullying tactics to try and shame people into discharging their weapon when in a hypothetical situation as a matter of SOP.

[LSM3]

You also live in Sacramento...so you are probably a politician.

Yes cause a Sacramento politician would be in favor of CCW AND using it to protect others??? Do you actually read what you write?

[marshallnoise]

Do you know the difference between a vigilante and protecting people DURING an active shooter scenario? Jesus Christ you are SO off.

Well, your attitude sure sends a signal to me that you are looking for a threat to get involved with. A vigilante goes out of their way to stop a threat.

If you find yourself in an active shooter situation, I would expect you to be all "Oh Goody!!! I get to use my gun!"

[LSM3]

So you are a vigilante?

Do you know the difference between a vigilante and protecting people DURING an active shooter scenario? Jesus Christ you are SO off.

[marshallnoise]

This is wrong. Period. I work in the CA CJ system and thats just bullshit.

You also live in Sacramento...so you are probably a politician.

[LSM3]

In California, if you aim for the head first, it is 2nd Degree Murder even if there is a valid self defense motive. If you fire more than necessary, that is a crime. If you hit your target more than necessary to stop the threat, that is murder.

The whole system is already interested in disarming the public by all means.

This is wrong. Period. I work in the CA CJ system and thats just bullshit.

[marshallnoise]

Well hopefully your family is never in a situation where you are not around to protect them and a person with the ability to protect them has YOUR attitude. Fucking disgusting.

So you are a vigilante?

[LSM3]

I'm not here to stand up for sleeve, he can do that well enough on his own. However I do want to say one thing in response to this drivel. Why should I risk my physical well being and open myself up the liability to rescue another person who openly chooses not to carry and protect themselves? Why is it my responsibility? I'm not a paid public servant, I carry to protect myself and my family. If we can get to safety, then that's where we're going. Personal responsibility is the purpose here, I refuse to step up for those too afraid to take the steps I have to ensure life and limb.

Well hopefully your family is never in a situation where you are not around to protect them and a person with the ability to protect them has YOUR attitude. WHY DO I HAVE TO HELP THAT CHILD AND MOTHER? THEY ARE NOT MY FAMILY. Fucking disgusting. COWARDICE

[marshallnoise]

+100

Mrsleeve,

Thats whats wrong with this country, no one wants to do anything UNLESS its happening to them. Call the guy anything you want but hes a fucking hero not a coward like most when SHTF. It amazes me that the same person who posts endless quotes from great men wont do shit when other peoples lives are in danger. To have the ability (firearm) to save lives and instead run is COWARDICE. Its insane to me that you quote statements about having weapons to fend off a tyranical government yet wont fire them a a REAL threat in front of you. I carry every day for myself AND the people around me. I could NEVER live with myself if I knew I had the ability to save a life and ran instead...

I hope I never have to use my firearm but I can guarantee if a mass shooting occurs I will be putting rounds down range. Not because im a hero but because I have the ability to save a life BESIDES my own

I think there is a huge difference between vigilantism and engaging a murderer. I think that Sleeve's main point is that merely putting rounds down range can do more harm than good.

We are way over simplifying the situation here. If you can take a clear shot without endangering anyone, by all means. However, if you are not in a position to shoot without injuring someone else or are an immediate target yourself, unloading your weapon in the general direction of the aggressor is a terrible thing to do.

Do I mention that even unholstering your CCW can get your ass in trouble if witnesses testify/report that it was unwarranted?

In California, if you aim for the head first, it is 2nd Degree Murder even if there is a valid self defense motive. If you fire more than necessary, that is a crime. If you hit your target more than necessary to stop the threat, that is murder.

The whole system is already interested in disarming the public by all means.

[ParsedOut]

+100

Mrsleeve,

Thats whats wrong with this country, no one wants to do anything UNLESS its happening to them. Call the guy anything you want but hes a fucking hero not a coward like most when SHTF. It amazes me that the same person who posts endless quotes from great men wont do shit when other peoples lives are in danger. To have the ability (firearm) to save lives and instead run is COWARDICE. Its insane to me that you quote statements about having weapons to fend off a tyranical government yet wont fire them a a REAL threat in front of you. I carry every day for myself AND the people around me. I could NEVER live with myself if I knew I had the ability to save a life and ran instead...

I hope I never have to use my firearm but I can guarantee if a mass shooting occurs I will be putting rounds down range. Not because im a hero but because I have the ability to save a life BESIDES my own

I'm not here to stand up for sleeve, he can do that well enough on his own. However I do want to say one thing in response to this drivel. Why should I risk my physical well being and open myself up the liability to rescue another person who openly chooses not to carry and protect themselves? Why is it my responsibility? I'm not a paid public servant, I carry to protect myself and my family. If we can get to safety, then that's where we're going. Personal responsibility is the purpose here, I refuse to step up for those too afraid to take the steps I have to ensure life and limb.

[LSM3]

So on one hand you say that more people with more guns (CCW or otherwise) will reduce gun crime because there are more "good guys" with weapons to stop the "bad guys" with weapons, but on the other hand you say that those same good guys have been trained NOT to get involved, that they shouldn't get involved, and that it's not their place to do anything unless they feel super-duper safe and all warm 'n' fuzzy about their chances.

How do you reconcile those things in your head?

+100

Mrsleeve,

Thats whats wrong with this country, no one wants to do anything UNLESS its happening to them. Call the guy anything you want but hes a fucking hero not a coward like most when SHTF. It amazes me that the same person who posts endless quotes from great men wont do shit when other peoples lives are in danger. To have the ability (firearm) to save lives and instead run is COWARDICE. Its insane to me that you quote statements about having weapons to fend off a tyranical government yet wont fire them a a REAL threat in front of you. I carry every day for myself AND the people around me. I could NEVER live with myself if I knew I had the ability to save a life and ran instead...

I hope I never have to use my firearm but I can guarantee if a mass shooting occurs I will be putting rounds down range. Not because im a hero but because I have the ability to save a life BESIDES my own

[ParsedOut]

So on one hand you say that more people with more guns (CCW or otherwise) will reduce gun crime because there are more "good guys" with weapons to stop the "bad guys" with weapons, but on the other hand you say that those same good guys have been trained NOT to get involved, that they shouldn't get involved, and that it's not their place to do anything unless they feel super-duper safe and all warm 'n' fuzzy about their chances.

How do you reconcile those things in your head?

Let's say for example that 50% of all people CCW (crazy I know!), in an active shooter scenario the person being targeted (in imminent danger) has a 50% change of stopping the shooter right there on the spot, then the next guy and so on and so on. We are trained to leave a situation at all costs with life and limb but if someone busts into a movie theater or a starbucks and he's between me and the exit and I have a clear shot, you better believe I'd take it. You love to oversimplify your snarky responses and fail to use any sort of real critical thinking skills.