No one needs 15 rounds

[mrsleeve]

Lol. How about we exchange training certificates and see who has more range time...Do you want to do pistol only, rifle or three gun training/competitions. LMK.

I think you missed the point, I am not talking about proper proficiency with a weapon, I know I am rusty as all hell I dont get much time to shoot very often, but I do as much dry pistol training as I can to keep the muscle memory up with my carry weapons

Every CCW course I have attended was 85% legal ramifications, proper use of deadly force, what your permit allows you to do and not do stuff like that, and 15% weapon choice, carry style, or even proficiency and firearm safety. This is why I say, I would not be trying go looking for trouble. Depending on your local laws this action alone could be in violation of your permit its hard to argue self defense when you are actively looking for a threat. While the constabulary, and DA might look the other way and decide not to charge you, the family of the guy might not do the same, or maybe the POTUS might have his A/G say if the state wont charge you then the FED's will

Your willing to take more chances and put your neck out there further than I am. I have no desire to play that role, its not my job to play hero, that for the "professionals". I am out too defend myself and family if need be anyone else is situation depended or icing on the proverbial cake, and I am not putting my ass in legal hot water for someone else.

[ParsedOut]

Its sad that our society finds itself in such a place where such things happen on a regular basis. Be safe.

Cheers, likewise.

[LSM3]

Not all CCW defense situations are reckless nor do they need a hero. If a CCW holder is in a real threat situation where they are in imminent danger and the shot doesn't cause undue risk to others, it's a good shot. If you start hearing 5.56 pops from across the mall and run to the gunfire pistol drawn ready to "save" the others, that is reckless. Anyway, I think we understand each other's perspective by now. Game on.

Its sad that our society finds itself in such a place where such things happen on a regular basis. Be safe.

[ParsedOut]

Totally understand everything you said. Each of those are REAL things that could happen. Every situation is a situation onto itself and should be acted/not acted upon accordingly. Everyone has to do whats best for them. Its not fair to expect others to help each other in such a scenario.

Maybe with that said we should rename the "CCW saves lives thread" "when reckless situations turn out OK"

Not all CCW defense situations are reckless nor do they need a hero. If a CCW holder is in a real threat situation where they are in imminent danger and the shot doesn't cause undue risk to others, it's a good shot. If you start hearing 5.56 pops from across the mall and run to the gunfire pistol drawn ready to "save" the others, that is reckless. Anyway, I think we understand each other's perspective by now. Game on.

[marshallnoise]

You sir are a FUCKING IDIOT and I mean that in every possible way.

Ok.

[LSM3]

It is rare that FD or PD is ever put in danger. Yes, they are called, at times, for dangerous work.

You sir are a FUCKING IDIOT and I mean that in every possible way. How the fuck are you called for "dangerous work" but not "put in danger"?

[marshallnoise]

I understand how their retirement works.The difference is I think they earn it. When you have to put on a bullet proof vest/fire proof clothing/oxygen mask to go to work and you can be shot in the back of the head while taking a lunch break then you deserve to be taken care of. I guess 30 years of seeing dead people, molested children, rape victims, burned bodies, mangle corpses does not deserve a great retirement. But you know what they signed up for it right? They also signed up for the pension too.

You might think the same if you had to do any of those things at work. A hard day for MOST people is putting up with their cubicle mate.

How about you go for a couple ride alongs with your local PD. Ask to go to all the "good calls" let me know how that works out.

It is rare that FD or PD is ever put in danger. Yes, they are called, at times, for dangerous work. But the vast majority of LEOs never discharge their weapon in their career outside of the firing range. Most municipalities see fewer than 5 structural fires a year.

There is a philosophical argument I am making here that is at the root of my point: Earning is one thing, stealing blind is another. Worse yet, using FD, PD, Teachers as bargaining tools to ensure elections for sympathetic politicians is collusion. So much so that the people being used as bargaining tools gain for being the "pawns" in the game. FD, PD and Teachers are a unitized voting block for the Democrat party because they discovered they can vote themselves not only a pay check, but their pensions and health care and vacation hours and public holidays.

I don't like the cabal man. I just don't like it. It isn't about fairness, its about being fucked blind and being told to like it.

When San Diego had their fires a couple of weeks ago, I was pleased with the performance of the various FDs involved. But they aren't heroes for doing their job. That is what they are paid to do.

[LSM3]

When it is guaranteed for life after they retire at 52 and live to be 80, they are making a killing. Are you unaware of how defined benefits work? Taking home 80% of your final pay check for 30 years after you contributed to society while being able to start another business or get another job after the fact, continuing to draw on the pension is tantamount to highway robbery. The whole picture speaks way more volumes than the salary alone.

I understand how their retirement works.The difference is I think they earn it. When you have to put on a bullet proof vest/fire proof clothing/oxygen mask to go to work and you can be shot in the back of the head while taking a lunch break then you deserve to be taken care of. I guess 30 years of seeing dead people, molested children, rape victims, burned bodies, mangle corpses does not deserve a great retirement. But you know what they signed up for it right? They also signed up for the pension too.

You might think the same if you had to do any of those things at work. A hard day for MOST people is putting up with their cubicle mate.

How about you go for a couple ride alongs with your local PD. Ask to go to all the "good calls" let me know how that works out.

[LSM3]

I'm just glad I don't live in Sacramento so I don't have to worry about this guy being willing to compromise my life for an ill conceived shot. You do realize that if you go running into a building guns blazing trying to be a Rescue Hero the chance of another CCW holder misreading the situation and taking you out instead? Or maybe you misread it and are taking shots at another person simply defending themselves or pretending to be a lone SWAT team. Leave the situation to the professionals, get out of there...you'll just end up making it worse for you and everyone else. Call me a coward, that's fine. I'm comfortable with the choices I've decided to make.

Totally understand everything you said. Each of those are REAL things that could happen. Every situation is a situation onto itself and should be acted/not acted upon accordingly. Everyone has to do whats best for them. Its not fair to expect others to help each other in such a scenario.

Maybe with that said we should rename the "CCW saves lives thread" "when reckless situations turn out OK"

[marshallnoise]

Actually this started with you saying that military/officers/firefigters do it for the $$$. I just showed you that ON AVERAGE the $$ is not enough to do the job. I dont care what yours friends sisters brothers coworkers mother wants. The above are the salaries that make it SO AWESOME to be a police officer.

When it is guaranteed for life after they retire at 52 and live to be 80, they are making a killing. Are you unaware of how defined benefits work? Taking home 80% of your final pay check for 30 years after you contributed to society while being able to start another business or get another job after the fact, continuing to draw on the pension is tantamount to highway robbery. The whole picture speaks way more volumes than the salary alone.

[LSM3]

That article was about the whole California pension program which stated that LEO and Fire received the biggest benefits.

I realize that this is only anecdotal, but a co-worker's husband had complained that the $110K a year he earns as Oceanside FD is simply not enough. He expects, and so do his buddies, a certain lifestyle for being in the FD. That means new cars, boats, tons of time off, etc.

Public servants of yesteryear are not the same as the ones we have had for the past 20 years.

Actually this started with you saying that military/officers/firefigters do it for the $$$. I just showed you that ON AVERAGE the $$ is not enough to do the job. I dont care what yours friends sisters brothers coworkers mother wants. The above are the salaries that make it SO AWESOME to be a police officer.

[ParsedOut]

I'm just glad I don't live in Sacramento so I don't have to worry about this guy being willing to compromise my life for an ill conceived shot. You do realize that if you go running into a building guns blazing trying to be a Rescue Hero the chance of another CCW holder misreading the situation and taking you out instead? Or maybe you misread it and are taking shots at another person simply defending themselves or pretending to be a lone SWAT team. Leave the situation to the professionals, get out of there...you'll just end up making it worse for you and everyone else. Call me a coward, that's fine. I'm comfortable with the choices I've decided to make.

[marshallnoise]

So I give you a MEDIAN of salaries ACROSS THE NATION and you give me an article about ONE highly compensated department? It blows my mind that you think that is retort?

Average Police Officer Pay by State

ALABAMA -$37,620
ALASKA-$59,580
ARIZONA-$53,020
ARKANSAS -$36,030
CALIFORNIA-$74,660
COLORADO-$58,550
CONNECTICUT-$56,800
 DELAWARE-$55,740
 DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA-$64,400
FLORIDA-$51,320
GEORGIA-$38,340
HAWAII-$49,710
IDAHO -$46,300
ILLINOIS-$62,860
INDIANA-$44,970
IOWA-$45,070
KANSAS-$41,510
KENTUCKY-$38,590
LOUISIANA -$34,290
MAINE -$38,210
MARYLAND -$55,990
MASSACHUSETTS-$54,750
MICHIGAN-$51,260
MINNESOTA-$52,410
MISSISSIPPI-$30,460
MISSOURI-$41,150
MONTANA-$41,310
NEBRASKA-$44,020
NEVADA-$61,760
NEW HAMPSHIRE-$45,590
NEW JERSEY-$75,400
NEW MEXICO-$40,730
NEW YORK-$57,020
NORTH CAROLINA-$40,310
NORTH DAKOTA-$40,780
OHIO -$49,890
OKLAHOMA-$38,280
OREGON-$55,320
PENNSYLVANIA-$54,080
RHODE ISLAND -$51,440
SOUTH CAROLINA-$37,180
SOUTH DAKOTA-$38,010
TENNESSEE -$37,990
TEXAS-$48,010
UTAH-$44,340
VERMONT -$40,860
VIRGINIA-$48,970
WASHINGTON-$62,670
WEST VIRGINIA-$35,060
WISCONSIN-$55,660
WYOMING-$45,200

That article was about the whole California pension program which stated that LEO and Fire received the biggest benefits.

I realize that this is only anecdotal, but a co-worker's husband had complained that the $110K a year he earns as Oceanside FD is simply not enough. He expects, and so do his buddies, a certain lifestyle for being in the FD. That means new cars, boats, tons of time off, etc.

Public servants of yesteryear are not the same as the ones we have had for the past 20 years.

[marshallnoise]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/times-square-shooting-nypd-officers-shoot-two-innocent-bystanders-near-times-square/

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/woman-sues-nypd-over-empire-state-shooting/

Supposedly trained professionals who shoot innocents, not on purpose but to help them. I am aware that not all shootings end up in this manner, but for heaven's sake, shouldn't you be aware of the possibility? I mean, NYPD can afford it, but Joe Blo CCW carrier sure couldn't.

[LSM3]

http://www.sacbee.com/2013/09/09/571...n-payouts.html

So I give you a MEDIAN of salaries ACROSS THE NATION and you give me an article about ONE highly compensated department? It blows my mind that you think that is retort?

Average Police Officer Pay by State

ALABAMA -$37,620
ALASKA-$59,580
ARIZONA-$53,020
ARKANSAS -$36,030
CALIFORNIA-$74,660
COLORADO-$58,550
CONNECTICUT-$56,800
DELAWARE-$55,740
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA-$64,400
FLORIDA-$51,320
GEORGIA-$38,340
HAWAII-$49,710
IDAHO -$46,300
ILLINOIS-$62,860
INDIANA-$44,970
IOWA-$45,070
KANSAS-$41,510
KENTUCKY-$38,590
LOUISIANA -$34,290
MAINE -$38,210
MARYLAND -$55,990
MASSACHUSETTS-$54,750
MICHIGAN-$51,260
MINNESOTA-$52,410
MISSISSIPPI-$30,460
MISSOURI-$41,150
MONTANA-$41,310
NEBRASKA-$44,020
NEVADA-$61,760
NEW HAMPSHIRE-$45,590
NEW JERSEY-$75,400
NEW MEXICO-$40,730
NEW YORK-$57,020
NORTH CAROLINA-$40,310
NORTH DAKOTA-$40,780
OHIO -$49,890
OKLAHOMA-$38,280
OREGON-$55,320
PENNSYLVANIA-$54,080
RHODE ISLAND -$51,440
SOUTH CAROLINA-$37,180
SOUTH DAKOTA-$38,010
TENNESSEE -$37,990
TEXAS-$48,010
UTAH-$44,340
VERMONT -$40,860
VIRGINIA-$48,970
WASHINGTON-$62,670
WEST VIRGINIA-$35,060
WISCONSIN-$55,660
WYOMING-$45,200