Enough about guns, what's with all the illegal immigrants!?

[BraveUlysses]

No, he hasn't even bothered to figure out his own thoughts on the matter, thats why he shits out copy pasted articles without comment.

[marshallnoise]

No, he hasn't even bothered to figure out his own thoughts on the matter, thats why he shits out copy pasted articles without comment.

Perhaps he was just supplying more information for the discussion?

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[nando]

Due process is a right only citizens have. Duh!

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I do not think you are correct. Due process is a right anyone here has, citizen or not. Otherwise they could throw YOU out of the country and claim you aren't a citizen.

[z31maniac]

I do not think you are correct. Due process is a right anyone here has, citizen or not. Otherwise they could throw YOU out of the country and claim you aren't a citizen.

He isn't, look up all the case precedents regarding the 14th Amendment.

[smooth]

Due process is a right only citizens have. Duh!

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If this is your position then the logical corollary is that rights emanate from the government.

Whereas some of us believe in inaliable rights regardless of government. This would be consistent with the belief that documents like the Bill of Rights are limitations upon government rather than delineations of what citizens are eligible because of their status within the civic body.

In regards to gun and religious rights you seem to take the latter view but fall back on the former view when it comes to rights you want to keep for yourself.

[marshallnoise]

Fair enough. I did some reading up. Apparently, the courts have interpreted the 14th amendment to allow for anyone here physically to be given the same rights as natural born or naturalized citizenry.

It all goes back to people trying to deny blacks citizenship after the Civil Rights Act.

[smooth]

Wait...which laws denying blacks full rights of citizenship?

[marshallnoise]

If this is your position then the logical corollary is that rights emanate from the government.

Whereas some of us believe in inaliable rights regardless of government. This would be consistent with the belief that documents like the Bill of Rights are limitations upon government rather than delineations of what citizens are eligible because of their status within the civic body.

In regards to gun and religious rights you seem to take the latter view but fall back on the former view when it comes to rights you want to keep for yourself.

Well not quite. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness were concieved and written into law in this country. Everywhere else in the world, relatively speaking, those are not inalienable rights. Those rights are from God, indeed. However, only the United States of America acknowledges that. Therefore it has value.

I am all for immigration. I have been consistent on that. I am not for breaking the law in order to become a citizen.

Some people feel the laws for immigration are arbitrary, but I do not believe that. We should be able to have an orderly manner in which people become citizens. This is not denial of people's desire to become a citizen.

Once again, I am not for denying rights to other people and keeping them for myself. I just want order. I also want to know if they are bringing diseases into our country. We don't place wealth requirements on immigrants like almost every other country does. Nor do I think we should.

I do feel it is a travesty that the courts have ruled that even though someone is here illegally, they get all the rights citizens do save for firearm ownership and voting rights. The ends do not justify the means.

[marshallnoise]

Wait...which laws denying blacks full rights of citizenship?

As I read it, some states ratified the 14th amendment in order to use it to revoke blacks' citizenship. The courts said no.

[nando]

Well not quite. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness were concieved and written into law in this country. Everywhere else in the world, relatively speaking, those are not inalienable rights. Those rights are from God, indeed. However, only the United States of America acknowledges that. Therefore it has value.

I am all for immigration. I have been consistent on that. I am not for breaking the law in order to become a citizen.

Some people feel the laws for immigration are arbitrary, but I do not believe that. We should be able to have an orderly manner in which people become citizens. This is not denial of people's desire to become a citizen.

Once again, I am not for denying rights to other people and keeping them for myself. I just want order. I also want to know if they are bringing diseases into our country. We don't place wealth requirements on immigrants like almost every other country does. Nor do I think we should.

I do feel it is a travesty that the courts have ruled that even though someone is here illegally, they get all the rights citizens do save for firearm ownership and voting rights. The ends do not justify the means.

how much experience do you have with our immigration system? I'm betting it's bordering somewhere along the lines of none to zero.

I've personally dealt with it. The system is indeed asinine. The agencies are overburdened and lack resources. The laws are confusing and unclear, and few people seem to understand them (good luck getting ahold of a government employee that knows what they're talking about - usually they will contradict each other, even from the same office). Simple things can take months or years to process, and wait times are wildly inconsistent.

We don't need official wealth requirements, that's built into the system. There is a huge cost burden - even if you do it yourself. Of course, if you can afford to, you can pay a lawyer to handle everything but that's pretty well against what this nation was founded on. Although these days that seems to be exactly what those in power (and people like you) want. We definitely have the best immigration system money can buy..

[marshallnoise]

how much experience do you have with our immigration system? I'm betting it's bordering somewhere along the lines of none to zero.

I've personally dealt with it. The system is indeed asinine. The agencies are overburdened and lack resources. The laws are confusing and unclear, and few people seem to understand them (good luck getting ahold of a government employee that knows what they're talking about - usually they will contradict each other, even from the same office). Simple things can take months or years to process, and wait times are wildly inconsistent.

We don't need official wealth requirements, that's built into the system. There is a huge cost burden - even if you do it yourself. Of course, if you can afford to, you can pay a lawyer to handle everything but that's pretty well against what this nation was founded on. Although these days that seems to be exactly what those in power (and people like you) want. We definitely have the best immigration system money can buy..

Great. Then let's fix it. It is still no excuse for breaking what confusing laws we have here. The courts have made it more confusing too by issuing rulings that contradict each other or are at conflict with laws.

We need to get the system fixed. You and I agree with that. Let's hash it out, petition our elected officials and in the mean time, let's know who is crossing our borders and at least secure our borders.

I will never agree with breaking the law as your first act of attempting to become a citizen.

[M-technik-3]

So our wonderful elected leader is still out on the campaign trail though. He's off to another fund raiser in Denver Area.

[einhander]

Why has only one person acknowledged the net economic benefit provided by illegal immigrants?

[einhander]

He saw an article about congress allocating funds to deal with illegals, saw the new unadjusted national debt figure, shat his pants over the number and posted about it in a relevant thread. Then that troll dude put a spin on it so that the liberals here can pretend it's not relevant... that's my take anyway.

Yes, we know what he did, little boy.

We're curious what point he was trying to make.

[ParsedOut]

Why has only one person acknowledged the net economic benefit provided by illegal immigrants?

Proof?