Enough about guns, what's with all the illegal immigrants!?

[kickinindian]

most other countries are established populations in the world, and have a right to make it harder to become a citizen. where as the modern united states was founded on solely immigrants (Native Americans were the only established populations but a nice little genocide helped that problem). so the United States has no basis for a sense of Nationalism where by immigrants should be put down or cast out because they were not born here. not long ago, all people on this forum that are not native american (and dont say your part cherokee because thats a white man cop out) are all from a family that immigrated to this continent so dont be all high and mighty about it. if it was not for immigrants you guys would not be here.

[ParsedOut]

most other countries are established populations in the world, and have a right to make it harder to become a citizen. where as the modern united states was founded on solely immigrants (Native Americans were the only established populations but a nice little genocide helped that problem). so the United States has no basis for a sense of Nationalism where by immigrants should be put down or cast out because they were not born here. not long ago, all people on this forum that are not native american (and dont say your part cherokee because thats a white man cop out) are all from a family that immigrated to this continent so dont be all high and mighty about it. if it was not for immigrants you guys would not be here.

Unfortunately that was in a time when people were forced to work for a living or die trying, the semi-socialist environment we've created nurtures laziness. Like I've said, if we can ensure the people coming over (like the millions in the past) are willing and able to work for a living, then by all means let them in. This shouldn't be a race/culture argument by the massive amount of bigots in the country nor should it be about being a high and mighty nationalist, this should be about furthering our way of life by adding productive members of society. We have enough lazy fuckers sucking on the tit of our government, they need to be weaned and quickly before we open the floodgates.

[kickinindian]

Unfortunately that was in a time when people were forced to work for a living or die trying, the semi-socialist environment we've created nurtures laziness. Like I've said, if we can ensure the people coming over (like the millions in the past) are willing and able to work for a living, then by all means let them in. This shouldn't be a race/culture argument by the massive amount of bigots in the country nor should it be about being a high and mighty nationalist, this should be about furthering our way of life by adding productive members of society. We have enough lazy fuckers sucking on the tit of our government, they need to be weaned and quickly before we open the floodgates.

the sad part is most of the people that are lazy in this country were born here most of the "illegal" immigrants i have met or seen work work pretty hard.

maybe we should do a trade system where we trade our lazy fucks for the people that would actually work

[z31maniac]

Ahh yes, a bigot in the midst. "We don't like the poor, the republican, the Christian here."

You must suffer from the same smug disease that smooth suffers from. Tragedy to be so intolerant while professing to be tolerant.

When have I ever professed to be tolerant?

[E30 Wagen]

Oh, you mean like you did, with all that hard work you put in getting extracted from your mom's axewound?

Yeah.

It must really suck being born in a shitty country. Maybe that country should figure out how to not suck so people will want to live there. Is that an absurd idea?

[marshallnoise]

most other countries are established populations in the world, and have a right to make it harder to become a citizen. where as the modern united states was founded on solely immigrants (Native Americans were the only established populations but a nice little genocide helped that problem). so the United States has no basis for a sense of Nationalism where by immigrants should be put down or cast out because they were not born here. not long ago, all people on this forum that are not native american (and dont say your part cherokee because thats a white man cop out) are all from a family that immigrated to this continent so dont be all high and mighty about it. if it was not for immigrants you guys would not be here.

This is such an irrelevant argument. Every country is populated by immigrants at some point in their history. If the people of this country want to modify their immigration policy, why the hell shouldn't they?

For God's sake, Mexicans are made up of Native Americans and the Spanish who immigrated there. Going by your logic, they should have to open up their borders too.

Nonsense.

[kickinindian]

This is such an irrelevant argument. Every country is populated by immigrants at some point in their history. If the people of this country want to modify their immigration policy, why the hell shouldn't they?

For God's sake, Mexicans are made up of Native Americans and the Spanish who immigrated there. Going by your logic, they should have to open up their borders too.

Nonsense.

I think they should! but Mexico is in the same boat as we are with Guatemalans and other central Americans coming into Mexico on their southern border so ether we go shoot to kill like some countries or we let them come here and work but make it taxable. none of the waffleswaffleswaffleswaffleswaffles footing around we are doing right now.

edit: this makes immigration to the United States relevant no other country I know of wanted this


Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

[JinormusJ]

You must suffer from the same smug disease that smooth suffers from. Tragedy to be so intolerant while professing to be tolerant.

I like you


NINJEDIT:
Oh gawd I posted in P&R again

[marshallnoise]

I think they should! but Mexico is in the same boat as we are with Guatemalans and other central Americans coming into Mexico on their southern border so ether we go shoot to kill like some countries or we let them come here and work but make it taxable. none of the waffleswaffleswaffleswaffleswaffles footing around we are doing right now.

edit: this makes immigration to the United States relevant no other country I know of wanted this


Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

Ok, I can understand drawing a line in the sand and choosing a side in the situation.

But, you are aware that the Statue of Liberty poem is not law in any shape or form. Right? The poem was written by a woman named Emma Lazarus who was asked to write a sonnet to raise money for the pedestal that supports the Statue. She didn't even want to do it, but a friend convinced her. Since the statue would greet many of the immigrants who already passed through Ellis Island, she thought it would be fitting to write something for them. So she did.

The Statue itself was conceived by a Frenchman who wanted to honor the United States' dedication to liberty for the nation's Centennial.

The American monument would be a colossal statue of a woman called "Liberty Enlightening the World."

The immigration meaning was a side show and put upon it.

With that out of the way, Parsedout has a great idea. I just doubt it would ever happen because you can't create a class of people who aren't citizens that we allow here for cheap labor. It looks bad. Currently, we keep the same shit going and just don't call them citizens, turn a blind eye and once every 30 years grant them magic citizenship as a reward for breaking the law.

:dot:

[kickinindian]

Ok, I can understand drawing a line in the sand and choosing a side in the situation.

But, you are aware that the Statue of Liberty poem is not law in any shape or form. Right? The poem was written by a woman named Emma Lazarus who was asked to write a sonnet to raise money for the pedestal that supports the Statue. She didn't even want to do it, but a friend convinced her. Since the statue would greet many of the immigrants who already passed through Ellis Island, she thought it would be fitting to write something for them. So she did.

The Statue itself was conceived by a Frenchman who wanted to honor the United States' dedication to liberty for the nation's Centennial.



The immigration meaning was a side show and put upon it.

With that out of the way, Parsedout has a great idea. I just doubt it would ever happen because you can't create a class of people who aren't citizens that we allow here for cheap labor. It looks bad. Currently, we keep the same shit going and just don't call them citizens, turn a blind eye and once every 30 years grant them magic citizenship as a reward for breaking the law.

:dot:

I know the history of the whole poem and statue of liberty but it is a look of how America is pretty much the only country founded almost wholly by immigrants (Australia and Isreal kinda but not) so it dosen't seem so bad for me to let Mexicans who work hard have a real chance here in America even if they didn't get here legally. but we can't half ass the way they are allowed in like I stated before ether shoot em all or help them all not get stuck in bureaucracy where nothing gets done.

what am I saying though nothing gets done in the United States anymore laws are passed no one follows and if they are they are bent or flat out done and just paid to keep quiet about it. I hate this country just for that.

[The Dark Side of Will]

We are discussing the immigration system because people are just pouring across the border and there is no enforcement. Not because it is hard to gain citizenship.

The line exists for a reason and it should be adhered to. Breaking the law as your way to becoming a citizen is a shitty way to show you add value to the country you wish to live in.

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The "system" is ridiculously broken. That's why people "pour" across the border... if the legal way made any sense, they'd do that instead and we wouldn't have a border security problem.

[The Dark Side of Will]

the sad part is most of the people that are lazy in this country were born here most of the "illegal" immigrants i have met or seen work work pretty hard.

That's my observation also.

[marshallnoise]

The "system" is ridiculously broken. That's why people "pour" across the border... if the legal way made any sense, they'd do that instead and we wouldn't have a border security problem.

Why would anyone wait in line and follow the rules when you can just walk across the border and claim you fear for your life and you can stay?

The only solution is to grant citizenship to anyone who asks for it. That "fixes" our broken system because we don't enforce border security or our own immigration laws.

The system works fine, we just refuse to use it and those who cross on foot know it.

You have the whole thing wrong in your head. People pour across because they can, not because the system doesn't work. It's because they feel the system is tedious but they want to be here now.

It is like saying you want a new car, don't want to wait to earn the money for it and you steal it instead. It's easy because the dealer leaves the car gassed up, no security protecting it and the key in the ignition. Then when you get caught years later, the dealer just says "oh well, you can keep it."

You don't steal cars because it is too hard to earn money to buy it and you simply have to have it now.

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[evandael]

Has anyone here making the argument for closed borders felt personally threatened by the presence of immigrants, illegal or not? Your job? Your health? Your property, your car, your wealth?


This is, in my opinion, another distractive bogeyman argument, made by people who have too much intere$$$t in keeping the important issues facing this nation from being worked on.

[marshallnoise]

Has anyone here making the argument for closed borders felt personally threatened by the presence of immigrants, illegal or not? Your job? Your health? Your property, your car, your wealth?


This is, in my opinion, another distractive bogeyman argument, made by people who have too much intere$$$t in keeping the important issues facing this nation from being worked on.

No, not in the least. However, I am threatened by the very real prospect that immigrants who come here, get assistance from Uncle Sam, make the connection that Democrats vote to have open borders, give them citizenship and then they vote for those same folks who gave them free access to the United States. Its no different than public employee unions voting their pay check. They are Undocumented Democrats, nothing more, nothing less.

Rather, those who go through the tedious immigration system actually VALUE coming here and aren't bought by politicians from the onset.

There is no boogeyman in the medial issues though. In Southern California, Tuberculosis has made a comeback where it was once eradicated. Worse yet, it is showing in our school systems.

http://www.abc15.com/news/national/immigrants-bringing-diseases-across-border

http://www.examiner.com/article/another-inconvenient-truth-about-illegal-immigration-disease