Am I the only person who likes Bernie?

[marshallnoise]

Hahahahaha

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[roguetoaster]

My man...

[Kershaw]

So you see the problem, as always, is the middleman.

And buying second homes, super cars, nice clothes, gifts for his friends is a blessing towards his fellow man. They are employed. Even the super car dealership has toilets to clean, security to hire, payroll to pay.

Using the strong arm of the law to take from one man and give to another, while taking his cut, is theft.

You really need to think long and hard about the words you say. They matter.

EDIT: And there is another problem. When will taking a small amount more in taxes cease? When will the appetite of the poor, iPhones in hand, be satiated?

Lol. Are you still trying argue to Trickle Down Economics? AKA The Horse and Sparrow Theory? AKA Bullshit that does not work at all?

The small amount more in taxes will stop when the wealth gap stops increasing at an alarming rate. I don't understand how you're arguing that the wealthy are not being treated fairly when they are gutting everyone below them. You can see that in the wealth gap. They take more, while everyone else gets less. You get less. You get less every year. How are you not angry about this?

Ah, I forgot. You are another temporarily embarrassed 1%. Your fortune and Ferrari are only a few years away and you need the political system to be favorable to you when it happens.

And going back a few pages, I don't think it's crazy to expect people and corporations to want to do the best they can for their fellow humans, the planet, and the whatever else is around. I don't think shrugging off using tax loopholes as merely doing business is ok. Call me starry eyed, but I fully believe businesses can exist, do right by their employees, and not exploit the fuck out of everyone at every single instance they can.

[marshallnoise]

Lol. Are you still trying argue to Trickle Down Economics? AKA The Horse and Sparrow Theory? AKA Bullshit that does not work at all?

The small amount more in taxes will stop when the wealth gap stops increasing at an alarming rate. I don't understand how you're arguing that the wealthy are not being treated fairly when they are gutting everyone below them. You can see that in the wealth gap. They take more, while everyone else gets less. You get less. You get less every year. How are you not angry about this?

Ah, I forgot. You are another temporarily embarrassed 1%. Your fortune and Ferrari are only a few years away and you need the political system to be favorable to you when it happens.

And going back a few pages, I don't think it's crazy to expect people and corporations to want to do the best they can for their fellow humans, the planet, and the whatever else is around. I don't think shrugging off using tax loopholes as merely doing business is ok. Call me starry eyed, but I fully believe businesses can exist, do right by their employees, and not exploit the fuck out of everyone at every single instance they can.

You are staryeyed. And that's cool. Trickle up poverty for everyone.

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[roguetoaster]

You are staryeyed. And that's cool. Trickle up poverty for everyone.

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At some point, someone gets stuck with the tax bill. If you stick it to businesses they complain that they can't afford whatever, lay off employees and generally jerk their minions around. If you stick it the the average citizen they have a few less dollars to spend in the flipping economy and businesses complain that no one is buying their shit, but the roads sometimes get fixed. If you stick it the truly wealthy you aren't reelected.

There is no winning, but when you're screwing everyone over equally you've probably found that sweet spot that's right for the country. The sad thing is that no politician that I've seen has the balls to do it, and probably can't get in to office if they say it.

[mrsleeve]

At some point, someone gets stuck with the tax bill. If you stick it to businesses they complain that they can't afford whatever, lay off employees and generally jerk their minions around.

But normally just pass the new cost on the next entity in the chain there by increasing the cost to the end consumer. Business never pay taxes the customers do its all built in the price of doing business. So in short cost of doing business goes up so the consumers cash does not go as far and the net effect is less money for the average citizen to spend in the economy....

If you stick it the the average citizen they have a few less dollars to spend in the flipping economy and businesses complain that no one is buying their shit, but the roads sometimes get fixed. If you stick it the truly wealthy you aren't reelected.

There is no winning, but when you're screwing everyone over equally you've probably found that sweet spot that's right for the country. The sad thing is that no politician that I've seen has the balls to do it, and probably can't get in to office if they say it.

So yeah raising taxes in general is going to have a general negative effect and your going to run out of other peoples money to redistribute

[Wschnitz]

Not looking super hot, but only 50% of the way through.

[gwb72tii]

Lol. Are you still trying argue to Trickle Down Economics? AKA The Horse and Sparrow Theory? AKA Bullshit that does not work at all?

The small amount more in taxes will stop when the wealth gap stops increasing at an alarming rate. I don't understand how you're arguing that the wealthy are not being treated fairly when they are gutting everyone below them. You can see that in the wealth gap. They take more, while everyone else gets less. You get less. You get less every year. How are you not angry about this?

Ah, I forgot. You are another temporarily embarrassed 1%. Your fortune and Ferrari are only a few years away and you need the political system to be favorable to you when it happens.

And going back a few pages, I don't think it's crazy to expect people and corporations to want to do the best they can for their fellow humans, the planet, and the whatever else is around. I don't think shrugging off using tax loopholes as merely doing business is ok. Call me starry eyed, but I fully believe businesses can exist, do right by their employees, and not exploit the fuck out of everyone at every single instance they can.

you're arguing that it's a zero sum game, which it certainly is not.
look at what has happened over the last 30 years with tax policy. The "rich" are paying more than they ever have, and in fact pay more than their fair share, yet the wealth gap is more pronounced than ever.
redistributionist policies do not solve the wealth gap problem, but they get progressive politicians elected because they play to your jealousy that your neighbor earns more than you.
wanting what's best for your fellow humans or the planet has nothing to do with how much money you make or how "rich" you are.
the lack of economic opportunity is what the problem is. to quote alan greenspan, "all taxes are regressive". it's impossible to make us all equal thru tax policy.
Want evidence? contrast economic growth during Obama's term with Reagan

[roguetoaster]

So yeah raising taxes in general is going to have a general negative effect and your going to run out of other peoples money to redistribute

Wrong, taxes are necessary to keep the country running along, but raising them historically (more than to keep up with inflation, but to outpace it and control growth appropriately) has not hurt the country unless the Fed/precursors guessed incorrectly. Getting the actual paid tax rates in line with the effective tax rate would be a nice start too.

What we need to do is curb our spending, and that starts with DoD expenses (which are the easiest target, not the largest expense), then moves to non-discretionary spending (majority of that's welfare programs/unemployment), and followed by a total revamp of the health/welfare/social security system once the economy is stable.

It's the coupling of tax increases and service/expense decreases that is the way forward. Will the country suffer for some time if such ideas are put in to place too quickly, yes, of course, are they necessary if we want our country to grow, of course. Will we recover and prosper with sensible, but unpopular management, undoubtedly.

[Kershaw]

Yeah, Bernie isn't looking so hot. If he doesn't get the nomination, I hope he still runs. I'll still vote for him even if it splits the democrat vote. I think it's important to stick to ideals. If Trump actually wins, I'm going to consider moving, haha.

The "rich" are paying more than they ever have,.

I stopped reading right here. Please show me how they are paying more than they ever have.

Unless of course you mean by the actual dollar amount and that's a laughable angle to take. If that is what you mean, please read this article https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

[jpod999]

If Trump actually wins, I'm going to consider moving, haha.

My wife and I have already discussed this, we agree that it is probably smart to get out of the country as well.

[Kershaw]

My gf and I are considering New Zealand, Australia, or England, where are you considering?

[BraveUlysses]

Yeah, Bernie isn't looking so hot. If he doesn't get the nomination, I hope he still runs. I'll still vote for him even if it splits the democrat vote. I think it's important to stick to ideals. If Trump actually wins, I'm going to consider moving, haha.



I stopped reading right here. Please show me how they are paying more than they ever have.

Unless of course you mean by the actual dollar amount and that's a laughable angle to take. If that is what you mean, please read this article https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

its ok gwb doesn't have the best track record with these kind of claims

The rich are now paying more of their fair share in taxes, but they are still paying less than they did in the mid-1990s.

"Most income of billionaires never shows up on tax returns and is never taxed because it takes the form of unrealized capital gains," said Gabriel Zucman, assistant professor in the University of California Berkeley's economics department.

He also said he'd never post here again but here we are yet again, the election brings everything out of the woodwork.

[gwb72tii]

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/04/13/top-1-pay-nearly-half-of-federal-income-taxes.html

the top 1% in 2014 (last year with actual data) paid 45.7% of all income taxes collected, up from 40% in 2012

and yet income inequality is worse. so tax rates don't help.

plus, why is income inequality a bad thing? should someone smarter/harder working get paid more?

[Kershaw]

I didn't realize that ever started in 2012.

That George W. Bush tax rate though, hahahaha.