Hillary Sucks.

[CorvallisBMW]

And if you think that "common sense gun reforms" is anything other than a gun-grab, you are mistaken. And I know you are a gun nut like me. You have to be deluding yourself to think otherwise.

In what way would universal background checks be a "gun-grab"? Seriously.

[mrsleeve]

You do understand that it is the private party sales provisions that allows the for the NICS and form 4473 to even be legal right....

How are voter ID laws a restriction on voting? Seriously.

[BraveUlysses]

How are voter ID laws a restriction on voting? Seriously.

Depends on how the ID laws are written.

For some educational learning, look no further than another facet of the ugly history of how southern states restricted blacks from voting:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_vault/2013/06/28/voting_rights_and_the_supreme_court_the_impossible_literacy_test_louisiana.html

[Wschnitz]

Voter ID isnt inherently Anti-Voter, but it can be if set up poorly.

Wisconsin is becoming an ever increasing example of this, making polling days for hours that target only older voters voting, making ID locations further away from population, restricting a ridiculous number of current ID's cause they don't meet "wisconsin standards". I voted in the primary and needed like 3 forms of ID, my DL, School ID, and a certificate of Enrollment/Residence at UWStout...

Plus there isnt this insane amount of voter fraud its preventing, the bigger fraud is election fraud by fudging the numbers for a candidate.

[nando]

yeah, the voter fraud thing is ridiculous. That doesn't happen because voters try to vote more than once (what do you get? another vote at the risk of imprisonment?). Election fraud happens at the top. The problem it's trying to solve doesn't exist.

how about looking at the hilariously insecure and closed off voting machines? You put your vote into this black box, and hope that it's counting your vote correctly.. but nobody can verify that it does, plus they are really easy to tamper with.

[marshallnoise]

yeah, the voter fraud thing is ridiculous. That doesn't happen because voters try to vote more than once (what do you get? another vote at the risk of imprisonment?). Election fraud happens at the top. The problem it's trying to solve doesn't exist.

how about looking at the hilariously insecure and closed off voting machines? You put your vote into this black box, and hope that it's counting your vote correctly.. but nobody can verify that it does, plus they are really easy to tamper with.

Um, in California voter fraud is a huge deal. It's all about illegals voting when they shouldn't be.

[nando]

Because illegals who are afraid of being deported by a good squad hired by El Tumpo, are going to show up in mass numbers (and risk getting caught) to throw the election, right? Where's the proof?

[Wschnitz]

Because illegals who are afraid of being deported by a good squad hired by El Tumpo, are going to show up in mass numbers (and risk getting caught) to throw the election, right? Where's the proof?

Well the DMV said....

Oh the DMV that also shows they fudged the numbers by counting people with duplicate names as voter fraud? Yeah...

Sorry John Smith number 46, your a dirty voter fraud with the other 89 John Smiths in California!

[marshallnoise]

Because illegals who are afraid of being deported by a good squad hired by El Tumpo, are going to show up in mass numbers (and risk getting caught) to throw the election, right? Where's the proof?

Dude, seriously? Out here, if an illegal alien hits your car, runs a red light, drives without insurance, they are let go without so much as a warning. There is no enforcement.

So why wouldn't they go to the polls when promised by democrats that they will get more benefits? There is zero risk for them, regardless of the penalties.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/13/napolitano-california-to-allow-illegal-immigrants-to-vote-for-the-next-president-video/

Poo-poo the source all you want, these are the realities that border states deal with. Dead people vote all the time too. Those are usually a result of some SEIU employee combing obits and getting their buddy to use that person's name because its illegal to check ID. All you have to do is say, "I am Joe Blow, I live at 123 Blow Me Street." Bam, here is the ticket to the voting booth.

Besides, it makes all sorts of fucking sense to verify that only citizens are voting. All you have to do is make sure that people are citizens in order to acquire a voter ID card (like Mexico requires) and present it at the polling place before casting your vote. Drivers Licenses used to be sufficient, but instead California decided to not care if you were a citizen of the state (by extension, the United States) in order to get a license.

I can't believe we are talking about this. This is an actual common sense thing that has no grounds for objection unless you are for (permissive) of fraud.

[mrsleeve]

This is not how I meant/expected the Voter ID reference to pan out.... But its interesting where its going, carry on

Depends on how the ID laws are written.

For some educational learning, look no further than another facet of the ugly history of how southern states restricted blacks from voting:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_vault...louisiana.html

So asking to see a valid govt issued form of photo ID when you show up to vote is equivalent to Jim Crow.

[Dozyproductions]

Because illegals who are afraid of being deported by a good squad hired by El Tumpo, are going to show up in mass numbers (and risk getting caught) to throw the election, right? Where's the proof?

All the rallies that Trump holds in California. Unless the allegations are true and their just hired thugs, most of those people are illegals (was there at the trump rally in san diego) who burn american flags while wearing a mexican flag.


Btw, I did a little Snopes search about the picture posted earlier. "Proven false" based on the fact that that's something that he wouldn't say and that rules of a radical doesn't outline those bullet points... being that those 'rules' were attached to Lenin from way back and even then it's unclear if even then that really came from him. Point to the lefties of this debate but will continue that line of searching.

To the defense of that post, doesn't take away from the fact that her ideals align with the sentiments of that picture and it's exactly whats going on which can only result in a tightly controlled state.

Another thing. How many of you are pro war? She has mentioned that she wan'ts to escalate the war in syria and, if things go as they were, she will be forced to continue to play hard ball with the russians. They aren't going anywhere. Where do you think that goes? More stability in the region? There's already musings that Assad couldn't of used those chemical weapons on his own people due to the radius of the weapons fired. At best or worst, depending on how you look at it, the waters are a lot muddier than was originally reported.

[marshallnoise]

I am not pro-war. If we are attacked, then kick ass. Short of massive genocide, we should let people solve their own problems.

[Wschnitz]

I am not pro-war. If we are attacked, then kick ass. Short of massive genocide, we should let people solve their own problems.

Wow I agree with Marshall for once!

Im Really sick of the America world police method we have done for the last 40 years...

Including supporting israel, sick of being their benefactor for no other reason then muh jebus birth place.

[BraveUlysses]

So asking to see a valid govt issued form of photo ID when you show up to vote is equivalent to Jim Crow.

I didn't say that, but A+++ thoughtful response, glad to know I shouldn't waste my time when you won't bother to educate yourself.

[marshallnoise]

I didn't say that, but A+++ thoughtful response, glad to know I shouldn't waste my time when you won't bother to educate yourself.

What sleeve said is virtually identical to what you implied.

[emoji90]