Trump Thread 2.0

[cale]

I know you think its embarrassing, but seriously, no one has ever, ever contended that the MSM is anything other than parrots repeating the same narrative over and over across all media outlets.

Ironic that you think Fox is any different in this regard

Your leftist nutjob hero Noam Chomsky....

Try harder to paint me with that partisan brush of yours. I'm anti-stupid of left things as well, perhaps someday you'll be able to realize these topics aren't binary.

[marshallnoise]

Ironic that you think Fox is any different in this regard

You know, you aren't that clever. They just speak about things you disagree with, therefore, bad. Orange man bad. TDS is legit and you are patient number 1.

Try harder to paint me with that partisan brush of yours. I'm anti-stupid of left things as well, perhaps someday you'll be able to realize these topics aren't binary.

So you think you are objective? Ridgedly adhering to the idea that MSM means something it never has? I don't have to paint you with any brush, you do it well enough yourself. And you aren't anti-stupid things of the left at all. You are blinded by the narrative you have bought, hook, line and sinker.

[marshallnoise]

I dare you to watch this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urAF4Tx_m3g

[cale]

You know, you aren't that clever. They just speak about things you disagree with, therefore, bad. Orange man bad. TDS is legit and you are patient number 1.

They along with nearly every other news outlet that tops the chart of most viewed, that includes the likes of CNN and NBC. I'm not suggesting Fox stands alone in garbage content, I'm just not accepting the bullshit sob story of MSM has it out for Trump when the #1 news source in the country has him on speed dial as his biggest supporters. You're just busy parroting Trump soundbites, try thinking critically for a change.

Ridgedly adhering to the idea that MSM means something it never has?

More assertion without substance.

[roguetoaster]

I dare you to watch this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urAF4Tx_m3g

I loved it when he criticized politicians for following talking points, media for quoting those talking points (although several shown were probably parroting), to defend a position from DT that there is an immigration crisis, which somehow justifies a solution from a millennia ago (which he also alluded to), only to then clearly state that we don't know how bad the crisis is in the first place. The remainder is opinion, which is that his show offers.

Also, you two should just get a room already.

[phillipj]

I know you think its embarrassing, but seriously, no one has ever, ever contended that the MSM is anything other than parrots repeating the same narrative over and over across all media outlets.

Your leftist nutjob hero Noam Chomsky defines the MSM like this:
"Noam Chomsky, in an essay titled, “What Makes Mainstream Media Mainstream,” argued that corporate media organizations attempt to “divert” people’s attention from serious matters. “What are the elite media, the agenda-setting ones? The New York Times and CBS, for example. Well, first of all, they are major, very profitable, corporations. Furthermore, most of them are either linked to, or outright owned by, much bigger corporations, like General Electric, Westinghouse, and so on,” wrote Chomsky. “They are way up at the top of the power structure of the private economy which is a very tyrannical structure. Corporations are basically tyrannies, hierarchic, controlled [sic] from above. If you don’t like what they are doing you get out. The major media are just part of that system.”"

Wait, seriously why is Chomsky a "nut job"? Realize you just used his very intelligent and accurate description to bolster your exact thoughts! Don't kid yourself! News Corp and Rupert Murdoch and the zillions of media entities they own, including Fox News, is not at all different. Chomsky so often excellently illustrates how corporations and huge monied interests run ALL of these media outlets, be it right themed or neo-liberal ones, to shape and make their own agenda which is all about **profit first**.

Also, you just said "seriously, no one has ever, ever contended that the MSM is anything other than parrots repeating the same narrative over" -- realize I just linked you to a prime example of how corporate-conservative Sinclair is doing this all over the entire US:

https://kinja-vh.akamaihd.net/i/prod...il/master.m3u8

Fox and Newscorp, and Sinclair, and the Tribune Co. and the enormous multitude of other heavy "conservative" outlets that are extremely wealthy / powerful / widespread are definitely not the little guys. They are the agenda-makers, too. And making it WORSE a number of these work hand in hand with this President and his Administration as an official Propaganda arm, they even trade staff back and forth in highly critical roles. For example, something like 20-25 people have gone through the revolving door between Fox and this White house. That's unprecedented & alarming.

[marshallnoise]

They along with nearly every other news outlet that tops the chart of most viewed, that includes the likes of CNN and NBC. I'm not suggesting Fox stands alone in garbage content, I'm just not accepting the bullshit sob story of MSM has it out for Trump when the #1 news source in the country has him on speed dial as his biggest supporters. You're just busy parroting Trump soundbites, try thinking critically for a change.

No no bro. My criticism of the MSM has nothing to do with Trump. They have been anti-America for decades now. They pushed the Ferguson lie, the "Very Fine People" lie, that reopening the economy will kill people, literally lie. No one is telling 100% the truth free from bias. The idea that Fox somehow is responsible for the MSM dividing our country is just as much bullshit though and that is what you asserted in the first place.

More assertion without substance.

Dude, you literally posted definitions from the dictionary trying to claim that being a large news corporation means Fox is part of the "Mainstream Media" when it clearly isn't and never has been considered the MSM. Do you have a spine in there? Anywhere?

[marshallnoise]

I loved it when he criticized politicians for following talking points, media for quoting those talking points (although several shown were probably parroting), to defend a position from DT that there is an immigration crisis, which somehow justifies a solution from a millennia ago (which he also alluded to), only to then clearly state that we don't know how bad the crisis is in the first place. The remainder is opinion, which is that his show offers.

Also, you two should just get a room already.

The truth is, and always has been, we have been in a state of immigration crisis since the Amnesty of '86. Its not up for debate. The system is broken and has been for decades. Not knowing the extent of a crisis does not mean there isn't a crisis.

And if you don't think walls work, why did CHAZ immediately establish borders? Fuck me man, seriously.

[phillipj]

Why are you trying to equate a few week protest zone to a $20 million dollar / mile border wall between countries that doesn't work?

[marshallnoise]

Wait, seriously why is Chomsky a "nut job"? Realize you just used his very intelligent and accurate description to bolster your exact thoughts! Don't kid yourself! News Corp and Rupert Murdoch and the zillions of media entities they own, including Fox News, is not at all different. Chomsky so often excellently illustrates how corporations and huge monied interests run ALL of these media outlets, be it right themed or neo-liberal ones, to shape and make their own agenda which is all about **profit first**.

Chomsky is a nut job because of every single one of his ideas except for his defense of free speech. I agree, all media that is for profit is potentially and likely poisoned. Clearly the founders never intended the third estate to be incorporated. Which is why citizen journalism is more important than ever.

Also, you just said "seriously, no one has ever, ever contended that the MSM is anything other than parrots repeating the same narrative over" -- realize I just linked you to a prime example of how corporate-conservative Sinclair is doing this all over the entire US:

https://kinja-vh.akamaihd.net/i/prod...il/master.m3u8

Fox and Newscorp, and Sinclair, and the Tribune Co. and the enormous multitude of other heavy "conservative" outlets that are extremely wealthy / powerful / widespread are definitely not the little guys. They are the agenda-makers, too. And making it WORSE a number of these work hand in hand with this President and his Administration as an official Propaganda arm, they even trade staff back and forth in highly critical roles. For example, something like 20-25 people have gone through the revolving door between Fox and this White house. That's unprecedented & alarming.

See above man. I am not thrilled about any media outlet, never said anything of the sort. Freedom of the Press is not supposed to be hindered by the government or shareholders.

But seriously dude, you think that the President has that kind of influence over these companies? I don't believe that. Trump is and always will be a blowhard. He pisses everyone off. I am cool with that.

Regarding the bold section of your quote: You do realize that politics and media co-mingling has been happening for the better part of 50 years, right? George Stephanopolous? Karl Rove? James Carville? All of them are political operatives who have been in administrations and then moved to media. Is this really new to you?

[marshallnoise]

Why are you trying to equate a few week protest zone to a $20 million dollar / mile border wall between countries that doesn't work?

Cause borders are "antiquated," right? You can't be serious, are you?

[roguetoaster]

The truth is, and always has been, we have been in a state of immigration crisis since the Amnesty of '86. Its not up for debate. The system is broken and has been for decades. Not knowing the extent of a crisis does not mean there isn't a crisis.

And if you don't think walls work, why did CHAZ immediately establish borders? Fuck me man, seriously.

It is up for debate, and saying something opinion based like we have been in a crisis for 34 years should certainly be as the time frame is so great as to generally cast doubt on the assertion. I addressed this either in this thread or another in P&R and the numbers that we know show that legal immigration is clearly insufficient to meet growth needs, and that illegal immigration (as far as we can guess) is within acceptable/manageable limits for this country, and has probably declined in the last decade.

Borders are not walls, and have almost never been so historically. The scale of the wall is more the issue of course, unless you can continually patrol the entire distance and respond to an attempted breach in say 10 minutes it's pretty much just a token affair, which means that it is an egregious waste of time and money.

[cale]

Dude, you literally posted definitions from the dictionary trying to claim that being a large news corporation means Fox is part of the "Mainstream Media" when it clearly isn't and never has been considered the MSM. Do you have a spine in there? Anywhere?

So now we're taking definitions based on interpretations IAW marshallnoise, got it. Now I see how you manage to make these arguments seem rational to yourself.

[phillipj]

Also, the popular trend and agenda setting media -- whether you want to say 'MSM' is the traditional national NBC or CBS, CNN or MSNBC, or you want to contend it is Fox, etc. because they are so widespread and popular -- they **all** love Trump. Trump means ratings and clicks and $$$. It's funny you say that MSM is "Anti-America". What is that supposed to mean exactly? They are "pro-Money" !!

It might appear that they "hate" Trump (in actuality the media should do their job and go 1000% harder on him because he is an explicitly corrupt and inept President) but all of them deep down want him to win re-election -- they love keeping him at the front of every newscast and at the top of every headline. "Breaking News! Donald Trump said [insert BS here]" ... He gets more free airtime for utter nonsense and ineptitude than anyone in the country's history. There's only one huge reason for it: he's divisive and it makes tons of money. The late night TV hosts want him to win too, he's a goldmine for them.


CBS CEO Les Moonves:

"It may not be good for America, but Donald Trump is damn good for CBS. Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun."

"I've never seen anything like this, and this going to be a very good year for us. Sorry. It's a terrible thing to say. But, bring it on, Donald. Keep going."

[LowR3V'in]

so who would be a non main stream media and can they be trusted.