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    What do you dudes think about the $12 Billion Trump Bailout to farmers from a few months ago -- and now the additional $16 Billion dollar bailout this last week because of his own self-imposed Trade Wars?

    The trade war is affecting a ton of industries, not just farmers-- shouldn't they be getting bailouts too?

    Why are we going to bailouts? No positive end in the current situation. Everyday working people are continually getting screwed over.
    1990 BMW 325iC Triple Black Hard Top, Self-Wrenched, Original Owner Family

    Comment


      Not to mention Agriculture is one of the highest subsidized industries in the US.
      1989 BMW 325is | 2019 Ford Ranger FX4
      willschnitz

      Comment


        Originally posted by Wschnitz View Post
        Not to mention Agriculture is one of the highest subsidized industries in the US.
        Rich Farmers, not mom and pop farms, will collect most of Trump's tariff Bailout - LA Times

        $28 Billion in Bailouts ... "the biggest payments will go to the wealthiest farmers, who need them the least"
        Last edited by phillipj; 06-01-2019, 09:04 AM.
        1990 BMW 325iC Triple Black Hard Top, Self-Wrenched, Original Owner Family

        Comment


          Originally posted by Wschnitz View Post
          Not to mention Agriculture is one of the highest subsidized industries in the US.
          you like to eat dont you.......................... I assume with out having a 500 a week grocery bill to stuff your lone pie hole let alone a family of 3


          this is because the biggest farms that produce the most crops and live stock, have 10s to 100s of millions tied up in land/equipment/supplies and stock. They also have the most to lose, if they miss their payments to the banks too. Since the BIG FARMS produce more stuff they will get more than a small farm running 2 square, or the hobby farmer working 300ac on nights and weekends around their "real job"

          More waxing about how much we think we know about farming........... I guess I should not expect much else around here
          Originally posted by Fusion
          If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
          The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


          The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

          Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
          William Pitt-

          Comment


            Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
            you like to eat dont you.......................... I assume with out having a 500 a week grocery bill to stuff your lone pie hole let alone a family of 3




            this is because the biggest farms that produce the most crops and live stock, have 10s to 100s of millions tied up in land/equipment/supplies and stock. They also have the most to lose, if they miss their payments to the banks too. Since the BIG FARMS produce more stuff they will get more than a small farm running 2 square, or the hobby farmer working 300ac on nights and weekends around their "real job"

            More waxing about how much we think we know about farming........... I guess I should not expect much else around here
            It’s just that it’s not fair
            “There is nothing government can give you that it hasn’t taken from you in the first place”
            Sir Winston Churchill

            Comment


              Sleeve, you haven't actually explained why subsidies to farms are necessary. I mean, isn't that the evil socialism you righties are always railing against?

              Comment


                I didnt say they were necessary, but they have been woven into the system in which we all have to play by. In many ways they stabilize the food supply markets by insuring that those producers should be able to get a price for their products that will at least pay the bills... Also helps keep our food supply affordable, so there is always food at the store when you want something to eat that is not going to cost you 40%+ of your weekly income to feed yourself.

                With out them there would be even fewer family farms left than there are now and most of it would be left to a handful of corporate farms that would have the resources to withstand weather and market forces of sudden change.

                You want to farm for a living, you need to working around 2 square miles of tillable highly productive real estate (thats about 1280 Acres if you didnt know) how much does land cost per acre or what it cost to lease ???? and if your very lucky at the end of the year, there might be 50-100k left over in profits a 5mil+ investment and 24/7 job you never go home and forget about for a few hours.
                Last edited by mrsleeve; 06-02-2019, 10:00 PM.
                Originally posted by Fusion
                If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                William Pitt-

                Comment


                  Farm subsidies are why we drive with corn, drink corn, put things in corn made containers, eat popcorn, corn on the cob, creamed corn, corn bread, corn dogs, etc.

                  They should be phased out, or applied as needed to prop up agriculture, and let the market decide the rest.

                  Mr. Sleeve does make a solid point. Farming ain't easy.
                  I do things.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
                    I didnt say they were necessary, but they have been woven into the system in which we all have to play by. In many ways they stabilize the food supply markets by insuring that those producers should be able to get a price for their products that will at least pay the bills... Also helps keep our food supply affordable, so there is always food at the store when you want something to eat that is not going to cost you 40%+ of your weekly income to feed yourself.

                    With out them there would be even fewer family farms left than there are now and most of it would be left to a handful of corporate farms that would have the resources to withstand weather and market forces of sudden change.

                    You want to farm for a living, you need to working around 2 square miles of tillable highly productive real estate (thats about 1280 Acres if you didnt know) how much does land cost per acre or what it cost to lease ???? and if your very lucky at the end of the year, there might be 50-100k left over in profits a 5mil+ investment and 24/7 job you never go home and forget about for a few hours.
                    Subsidies keep things affordable. Who knew?

                    How about some subsidies for the cost of medical care?
                    Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
                    Chief Sales Officer, Midwest Division—Blunt Tech Industries

                    www.gutenparts.com
                    One stop shopping for NEW, USED and EURO PARTS!

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
                      I didnt say they were necessary, but they have been woven into the system in which we all have to play by. In many ways they stabilize the food supply markets by insuring that those producers should be able to get a price for their products that will at least pay the bills... Also helps keep our food supply affordable, so there is always food at the store when you want something to eat that is not going to cost you 40%+ of your weekly income to feed yourself.

                      With out them there would be even fewer family farms left than there are now and most of it would be left to a handful of corporate farms that would have the resources to withstand weather and market forces of sudden change.

                      You want to farm for a living, you need to working around 2 square miles of tillable highly productive real estate (thats about 1280 Acres if you didnt know) how much does land cost per acre or what it cost to lease ???? and if your very lucky at the end of the year, there might be 50-100k left over in profits a 5mil+ investment and 24/7 job you never go home and forget about for a few hours.
                      I understand how they work, but the reality is, in other industries people would say (mainly those that argue for free market economy), well, let the market decide. For instance, all the local bookstores that went out of business because of Amazon. There weren't subsidies for those businesses to keep them afloat in the face of giant corporate power.

                      The point I am making is this, why is socialism ok in some instances but then terrible in others? Why does it matter that there are family owned farms? We clearly don't care that there aren't family owned health insurance companies, so what's the difference?

                      It seems socialism is ok when it's convenient for those that would normally otherwise speak out against it, in this case it's the farmers that are taking government handouts that everyone else is paying for in taxes. I just find it all curious, there seems to be a cognitive dissonance at play here...

                      Disclaimer: A portion of my family works farms in Central and Southern NJ, a family run business since the 1930s

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
                        More waxing about how much we think we know about farming........... I guess I should not expect much else around here
                        pretty rich coming from the guy who "always knows everything about everything" :P
                        past:
                        1989 325is (learner shitbox)
                        1986 325e (turbo dorito)
                        1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
                        1985 323i baur
                        current:
                        1995 M3 (suspension, 17x9/255-40, borla)

                        Comment


                          It helps to be well rounded when it comes to life


                          Grew up on a working farm and was employed by the 2 neighboring farms that were 10 times the size of ours. Little something I have forgotten more about than many people will ever know.... I do know a lot has changed in the last 25 years in the business as well
                          Originally posted by Fusion
                          If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                          The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                          The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                          Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                          William Pitt-

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
                            I didnt say they were necessary, but they have been woven into the system in which we all have to play by.
                            speak for yourself. if you have a backyard, you can grow your own food (i usually wind up with a surplus). if you want a lawn instead, you are choosing to participate in that system.
                            past:
                            1989 325is (learner shitbox)
                            1986 325e (turbo dorito)
                            1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
                            1985 323i baur
                            current:
                            1995 M3 (suspension, 17x9/255-40, borla)

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
                              It helps to be well rounded when it comes to life


                              Grew up on a working farm and was employed by the 2 neighboring farms that were 10 times the size of ours. Little something I have forgotten more about than many people will ever know.... I do know a lot has changed in the last 25 years in the business as well
                              No, he was pointing out your inconsistencies.

                              You're OK with subsidies as long as they benefit you or family (Farming or Oil & Gas). IE, the rest of us helping pay for you.

                              But you're not OK with subsidies, healthcare for example, that don't directly benefit you.

                              I'm not sure the Oxford Dictionary could paint a clearer picture of a hypocrite.
                              Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
                              Chief Sales Officer, Midwest Division—Blunt Tech Industries

                              www.gutenparts.com
                              One stop shopping for NEW, USED and EURO PARTS!

                              Comment


                                ^^Yes, that's about what I was getting at.

                                Also notice I haven't argued for or against subsidies of any kind. Merely pointing out the inconsistency here and asking why...

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