Democratic Primary Season 2020

[z31maniac]

I didn't like it, no one else did either...

What you did there, I see it.

[phillipj]

Side note: What did we think of the hit piece on Sanders by Clinton?

Unsurprising! Clinton admits what we already knew: the establishment doesn't want Bernie; Hillary is the definition of the establishment. I liked Bernie's response, though-- "I have more important things to get to." I wish we left the Clintons back in the 1990's

The establishment left doesn't want change, they just want to maintain power and Bernie will get shat upon again (not that I would have voted for him).

Who would you vote for? Why?

Ol' Milquetoast, Creepy Biden is going to ensure another 4 years of the Orange Man in the White House.

I would agree that Biden is the weakest candidate, he's really sunsetting and barely with it sometimes. The biggest selling point (to certain voters) is 'remember! I was Obama's VP,' or 'I'm electable'. Let's learn from 2016, not re-create it.


:cheers:

[z31maniac]

For President? No one.

I was for Gary Johnson in 2016. It doesn't matter, Oklahoma will go red like they always do.

[phillipj]

For President? No one.

I was for Gary Johnson in 2016. It doesn't matter, Oklahoma will go red like they always do.

Well, come join us in the Oklahoma Democratic Primary at least and help beat back the Establishment.

[z31maniac]

Well, come join us in the Oklahoma Democratic Primary at least and help beat back the Establishment.

The fact is, I don't like Bernie as a candidate either. I'm not really a fan of career politicians telling me if only they have more time and power they can fix it for real this time. Hillary was right about one thing, he has accomplished basically nothing other than getting a bunch of 35 and unders excited they might get the debt from their worthless degree forgiven.


I have decided the best outcome for the upcoming is this:

The Democratic ticket loses the popular vote, but gets the win with the Electoral College. I want to see if all my lefty friends will still "ugly cry in the streets" about how it's an outdated system that needs to change.

[naplesE30]

^ If your hoping to see some self awareness or reflection on either side, your gonna be sorely disappointed..... see national debt spending, and the current impeachment proceeding rules for example.

[phillipj]

The fact is, I don't like Bernie as a candidate either. I'm not really a fan of career politicians telling me if only they have more time and power they can fix it for real this time. Hillary was right about one thing, he has accomplished basically nothing other than getting a bunch of 35 and unders excited they might get the debt from their worthless degree forgiven.

I have decided the best outcome for the upcoming is this:
The Democratic ticket loses the popular vote, but gets the win with the Electoral College. I want to see if all my lefty friends will still "ugly cry in the streets" about how it's an outdated system that needs to change.

Well, there's a spot here for you if you ever do come around on this idea.

You've mischaracterized a few things, though:

1) No one person is going to fix anything at all by themselves. It really will take a sea-change of a tons of regular people calling for a course-correct on any issue to actually do so. And even then you are battling heavily funded special interests, so it's a huge uphill battle. Someone like a Bernie is maybe the most distinct out of the bunch about never promising to "fix" anything by himself; I do see that with a lot of other Narcissistic politicians though, unquestionably Trump takes the cake in that regard. Which is related to:

2) Whoever the President is, they have a somewhat limited effect over Domestic Policy concerning new, big legislation; they have to work with Congress and somehow pass things. Ideas about Student Loans and Medicare for All or the Green New Deal are not going to happen unless tons of people go out and demand it from their congressperson. Which is related to:

3) However, in regards to Foreign Policy, a new President has the potential to change our course much more fluidly. And I don't see any legitimate Presidential possibility, Democrat or Republican, besides Sanders who is serious about changing our status quo, which is a disaster. This month marks the 28th year in a row we have bombed Iraq. We are 18 years at war in Afghanistan. Who is truly going to alter our dangerous relationship with Saudi Arabia? With Israel? With Iran? Who is going to stop the spigot of Billions upon Billions of dollars into Foreign entanglements that make us no safer, and bring that back home where we really need it?


---

The Electoral College and the extreme Gerrymandering makes it possible that the least votes can actually win the Presidency in this country. Trump is poised to win again with even less votes than he had in 2016. What are you going to do about it?

In 2016: 26.75% Clinton, 25.59% Trump, 44.5% Didn't Vote

[Motheye99]

gerrymandering is what got trump elected right.....

[mrsleeve]

^
no that's what keeps congress critters in office on both sides. Founding principles is what got trump elected.

[MrBurgundy]

^
no that's what keeps congress critters in office on both sides. Founding principles is what got trump elected.

QFT

gerrymandering doesn't win presidents the election

[MrBurgundy]

Entirely different amounts and paths to their wealth. Bernie is an 78 year old man who still has a solid income, suggesting his $2.5m net worth makes him some sort of evil villain profiting off corruption is a farce.

Yeah, bernie's wealth comes from being a career politician. Tax payers have been paying his salary for him to do nothing for 3 decades.

IDK what's worse... hmmmm

[cale]

Yeah, bernie's wealth comes from being a career politician. Tax payers have been paying his salary for him to do nothing for 3 decades.

IDK what's worse... hmmmm

Where's the argument here, that being a paid public servant inherently makes you bad? If you're going to try and discredit someone based on wealth, you probably shouldn't pick someone who didn't even qualify as a millionaire until his late 70s. I don't want people completely driven by money in power either, but I think it's also pretty reasonable to accept that our leaders should display at least a modicum of fiscal responsibility and success. Bernie has written a few books and has a comfortable life to show for it, he's not gotten where he is because he's handed out billion dollar contracts to the right people and operated at the behest of bankers.

[MrBurgundy]

Where's the argument here, that being a paid public servant inherently makes you bad? If you're going to try and discredit someone based on wealth, you probably shouldn't pick someone who didn't even qualify as a millionaire until his late 70s. I don't want people completely driven by money in power either, but I think it's also pretty reasonable to accept that our leaders should display at least a modicum of fiscal responsibility and success. Bernie has written a few books and has a comfortable life to show for it, he's not gotten where he is because he's handed out billion dollar contracts to the right people and operated at the behest of bankers.

I think being a public servant for over 3 decades and doing next to nothing while generating a worth of 2.5 mil is pretty unattractive as a presidential candidate.

I never said he was profiting off corruption, or whatever you're initial response to me was. My whole point is Bernie IS a wealthy guy, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay wealthier than the people he claims to stand for, and his wealth is due to his role as a public servant. He has literally done nothing significant in his 30 something years in the gov and now he wants to be president and everyone thinks he's some kind of angel, because he says tax the rich and cancel student debt.

I just don't buy it. Never do.

[phillipj]

Wow, who knew, this became a comedy thread!

[phillipj]

Joe Rogan's recent endorsement of Bernie is supposedly 'controversial'. Some groups & politicians tell him to run away from it, but building a diverse base is a good thing. He should lean into it, not run away from it. It's going to take a coalition of all different sorts to actually win.

Rogan asks pretty good questions on his shows; all the shows with candidates were particularly insightful:

Andrew Yang.

Tulsi, too.

& The Bernie one.