What to do for brakes short of a Massive kit?

[Bishop]

So I've been wanting a Massive kit, but it's not in the budget this year or probably even next year. So I'm looking at solutions to maximize the stock system short of buying the kit....

I'd love to be corrected if I'm wrong, but from what I've read so far the Spec E30 brake setup is about as good as you can go without buying a BBK. Is this the truth?
I currently have ATI blue and HP+ installed, and nearly killed both at my last lapping day... So now, I'm looking at rebuilding the calipers, re-bleeding the system with new ATI blue, installing the SS lines I've had sitting in my basement for over a year, and then looking at what to do next... I'm thinking track specific pads, new rotors, and run some sort of ducting... All of which I'm open to suggestions for.... I'm probably going with OEM rotors since I don't see a reason to upgrade, and I was looking at either the HT10s or the Blues. It seems the Blues are more popular, but I haven't heard much about them. As for ducting, I'm at a loss for what I can do short of buying the backing plates and figuring out my own hoses / routing.

Any feedback is appreciated guys, and thanks in advance!
- Ben

[Massive Lee]

Get HT10 pads
Fit some cooling ducts
Bleed before every track day

Practice momentum. Brake less. That's why the spece30 guys say the stock brakes are adequate. They don't use brake...

[Bishop]

Thanks Lee.
Are the HT10s better than the blues? I hadn't heard about the blues until I started looking at Hawk race pads... As for ducting, any suggestions? I know there are some that just blast the rotor, or do I want the ones like Turner Motorsports that blast into the center of the rotor, but are double the price?

[Massive Lee]

The HT10 is way more friendly than the Blue, which only work when hot and will grind your rotors unless hot. The HT10 will work cold or hot, and are evn street friendly if you don't mind dust.

You want cooling plates that aim to the center of the disc, not the back face, cooling only one half of the discs. From the center, the air will be distributed radially and cooling both halves of the disc from the inside. A secondary benefit is that it will help cool the wheel bearings.

[JGood]

Do the pads before anything else. Get a new set of OEM blank rotors at the same time. They are only $30/each. HP+ are not track pads. When you go with a track pad and learn to properly brake, you might even be happy enough with the stock brakes to not want to spend the money on a BBK or cooling ducts. I know I am.

Try HT-10, or PFC 01 / 06 (06 for longer life, 01 for higher bite). All 3 are great track pads.

[e30s50dan]

Brake late !!

[Bishop]

Good ideas all around.... I'll start with fresh rotors and HT10s, and keep these rotors and the HP+ for street. If the car's abusive on the brakes, I'll probably find some proper ducts and fab up some simple cooling.

[etxxz]

hell if its not your DD i'd leave those rotors and ht10's on. that's what i found myself doing with my car (slotted + blues) i just have to stay ontop of keeping my wheels clean or nasty nasty rust/pitting forms on my wheels these pads are the death of any wheel if not cleaned.

[Bishop]

It's my DD for now, hence the wanting to have 2 pairs, so I don't eat my "race" stuff on the street (which I learned on this set of star specs.... wow they wore out fast)... I'll be DDing on bcaps and "meh" tires for now with the rotors and pads that are on the car. I can probably turn the rotors 1 more time, and when I kill the HP+ I'll be buying OEM for the road... Then, I'll mount some (probably NT01s) onto the wheels in my sig and only bolting those + the new rotors and race pads for track use. College student + sporadic income = creative ways to still go to the track...

[Massive Lee]

Brake late !!

Or slide the car on four wheels. It helps scrub speed ;-)

Lee

[briansjacobs]

Brake late in an E30 you will never get back up to speed !!

fixed that for you

[briansjacobs]

in this order

1.TRACK PADS (ht-10 will work great, PFC also)
2.Bleed before every event, if you are a heavy and late braker bleed after 3 sessions, 4 max
3.brake ducts are huge
4. if the super blue is still fading you are braking way to late, if you would rather throw money at the problem instead of correcting driver use MOTUL

[cjm]

For brake ducting, I bought the Mason Engineering backing plates. They are $195.00. http://www.masonengineering.net/Subp...W_Products.htm

Then had TCMotorsports do the install, so they provided the tubing, etc.

This made a huge difference in brake pad life.

[Massive Lee]

fixed that for you

The problem if you brake too early is that the next guy will pass you before the corner. Not to mention that the earlier on the brakes, the less time you spend on the accelerator. Some guys will say that braking hard makes the car unstable. My reply would be to work more on suspension and brake balance as a well set-up car can take any amount of braking.

I love braking late, trailbraking through the entry of the corner and modulating the direction of the car with the throttle. With such a momentum car, any amount of time off-throttle is a waste.

I have an e30 M3, and to keep up with the e36 M3s and e46 M3s, my only choice is to glue the accelerator pedal to the firewall...

[briansjacobs]

lee, fine line, very fine line. I've done a ton of coaching in SM which are even slower than SE30, all of my data agrees that the people that brake last spend the first half of the corner getting the car settled and are on the gas last.

What you are talking about is "race craft" which is never the fast way around the track, it is the way the slows down both cars but prevents a pass.

there is yet another technique that I teach but only to very advanced drivers of braking less for a sharp turn and turn in off throttle and allow the scrub of the turn to complete your deceleration for you then back to throttle just before apex. A perfect example for this would be ATL turn 1.