e36 ABS Standalone w/dual master cylinders - reservoir question

[TobyB]

Because it's all flash and no go when the $$$ is on the line in the boardroom?

But then, the E46 throttle cut isn't much fun, either.

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[ForcedFirebird]

Yeah, well the Vettes go to limp mid corner and if under warranty, no flashing allowed....even just to change e fan temps. Why in the world would a car like that be limped when druven too hard?

[nando]

yeah, most new cars no longer have LSD. on BMWs, if you track them too hard it cuts power because the rear brakes overheat.. lol

[ForcedFirebird]

ASC does actually apply rear brakes to clamp down on wheel spin, in addition to the second throttle/choker in the intake, but the vast majority of the ASC action was by choking the engine.

LSD was optional (and somewhat common) in E36s during the OBD1 generation, but AFAIK, no OBD2 non-M E36 was offered an LSD option.

Still trying to wrap my head around this. I have used e36 ABS as a "stand alone" in an e36 (void of dme input) and it functioned perfectly. Was that an OBD2 thing where it uses rear brakes for DTC?

Oh, and Mercedes hasn't had LSD in years. They have been using brake bias. Unrelated, but building the ls1 w210 made a 2 wheel peel very expensive since Quaife was the only real option aside from finding a rare 210mm clutch diff.

[Guymandude]

Op. Did you ever figure out how to make the abs work?. Is the return line going to one single reservoir?

[moatilliatta]

Why not just do E46 MK60 ABS?

I always though E30 ABS was way better than E36 abs...

[Bimmerman325i]

I didn't think the E36 was capable of individual channel braking (AKA DSC)? ASC was pretty new and it only really cut the throttle. Also, LSD was at least optional in most E36's wasn't it?

ASC does actually apply rear brakes to clamp down on wheel spin, in addition to the second throttle/choker in the intake, but the vast majority of the ASC action was by choking the engine.

LSD was optional (and somewhat common) in E36s during the OBD1 generation, but AFAIK, no OBD2 non-M E36 was offered an LSD option.

[nando]

I didn't think the E36 was capable of individual channel braking (AKA DSC)? ASC was pretty new and it only really cut the throttle. Also, LSD was at least optional in most E36's wasn't it?

[Kershaw]

Not even just modern BMWs, starting with the e36 they do that.

[nando]

that's how modern BMWs do it. it's really lame too. that or it bitch slaps you with a 50% torque cut..

[ForcedFirebird]

Well, either way my original suspicion that an e30/6 3 channel ABS is going to be the route we will take. Through research, people do it often (Camaro/Vette is another common option), and seems to be an easy swap in my case since the pulses from front to rear just need to match on tooth count. Just so happens I have an early e36 parts car with functional ABS.

The Benz stuff was tied into the ECU, apparently MB thought it was better to apply brakes to the spinning wheel via ABS instead of having LSD :( Both have causing complications/expense for this build. Quaife carrier for MB was $$.

[nando]

sorry, common misinformation. I think I originally argued a long time ago that E30s had 4 but people insisted there were only 3. I had thought it showed 3 in the ETM as well, but there is 4. :)

[ForcedFirebird]

I'm pretty sure they don't. RWD E30s only have 3 sensors, as far as I knew.

They have 4...

Searching for info on stand alone ABS systems to put in the LS1 Benz e430, just so happens a r3v thread is relevant in my Google search and see you say this?!?! :P

"Pulse Generator QTY: 2"

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=33_0213

You need to put down the AWD's and back away slowly haha.

[gobuffs]

apologies for threadjack-- I've just done the Mk60 into my E36. I keep hearing people say the units are programmable but details are...scarce. What can be programmed on non CSL/ZCP unit?

There is a guy in Europe that can reprogram the Mk60...can be specific to your car./data. I haven't done this but it can be done. The units that can be programmed are limited. You want either the CSL/ZCP units or the EARLY units. The later, more common, units cannot be reprogrammed. I'll have to look at my notes, but IIRC the Ate part numbered units with 818 in them are the units that can't be reprogrammed.

EDIT- just checked- yes, the 818 ABS pumps are the ones that CAN"T be reprogrammed. You want the early 2002 Mk60 unit that have 813 in the part number (not to be confused with the 01/02 mk20 units)...or the CSL units (lucky I have 2 of these- the 2nd is not for sale). There is one ZCP unit on ebay right now for $599- not a bad price.

this is an 813 pump (and is the desirable one after the CSL/ZCP pump): http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-E46-M3-A...1d47bd&vxp=mtr

On topic-- E36 3 channel for sure has wheel speeds at all four corners, but it just ties the rears together.

Even E30 systems have 4 wheel speed sensors. I might still have an E36 system I was using on my E30 race car sitting around. The mk60 is a much better (but more costly) system.

[catboy]

I did some reading and seems like the m3 mk60 is doable but id be gutted to have that and not have the motorsport software! :)
Perhaps ill hold off abs and wait until someone figures it out