e30 Braces

[mazur]

Just because BMW designed one for the e36's doesn't mean it helps an e30, which doesn't share a single part in common.

Really? The lower control arms and LCA Bushings look awfully the same. ;)



And yes, of course the x-brace is going to help with overall chasis rigidity.

[JGood]

some people know
some don"t know
some will never know
and
some don"t want to know

If I didn't want to know I wouldn't have bought the Sparco bar for my track car

[DCColegrove]

If I didn't want to know I wouldn't have bought the Sparco bar for my track car

I tested that bar on the shaker...

also tested a bunch of others.

[e304me]

reeeesults?

[JGood]

I tested that bar on the shaker...

also tested a bunch of others.

I know you did. And I tested it in real life.

Tell ya what, if your bar makes me quicker around the track, I pay for it. If not, I send it back. Deal?

[jjmtools]

keep the junk cheap bar ,after reading your chassis comprehension text, you are not ready for the good stuff

[JGood]

keep the junk cheap bar ,after reading your chassis comprehension text, you are not ready for the good stuff

Maybe you could share your experiences instead of being a prick. You are John Mason, correct? So instead of being a prick, maybe support your product with some details and evidence? Or not.

What "chassis comprehension text" of mine are you speaking of?

I'm not an engineer, I'm just a driver who even after many laps cannot feel or see a difference in small things such as strut brace on a car that still contains urethane bushings and is only running r-comps (not solid bearings and slicks). I just wonder how a car on street tires with rubber bushings is going to notice the effects of a strut bar. I can't imagine street tires are pulling the tower out to the point where the contact patch of the tire is reduced to an amount that effects grip noticeably. That's all.

Hey, I'm here to learn, and you are the engineer, so please teach me. I'm all ears and have a wallet ready for products that will drop lap times. I'm just looking for proof first, not "it's really good" statements.

[DCColegrove]

If that is indeed Mason...

He's earned the right to be a prick.

We are Engineers, Fabricators, Techies and Creators... People skills (salesmanship) aren't one of our strong points.

I can't guarantee you faster lap times with a tighter chassis (you are the unmeasurable variable in that equation) But I can guarantee the most elegant and highest quality bolt-on solution for mitigating the transient chassis flex of the e30 chassis.

[JGood]

If that is indeed Mason...

He's earned the right to be a prick.

We are Engineers, Fabricators, Techies and Creators... People skills (salesmanship) aren't one of our strong points.

I can't guarantee you faster lap times with a tighter chassis (you are the unmeasurable variable in that equation) But I can guarantee the most elegant and highest quality bolt-on solution for mitigating the transient chassis flex of the e30 chassis.

He has the right to be a prick to potential customers? OK, then I won't purchase his products. Easy enough. I don't see that as a right, sorry. I see that as a reason to never do business with a company.

I understand how impossible it would be to measure a difference in usable "handling" improvements of these products. Hence my point, how people can feel a handling difference on the street. That's all.

As I said, please prove me wrong, I'm all ears. I'm not the engineer here. So far I don't see any data though...

[FJ40]

If that is indeed Mason...

He's earned the right to be a prick.

We are Engineers, Fabricators, Techies and Creators... People skills (salesmanship) aren't one of our strong points.

haha, what a fucking lame cop out. If that's truly the case, don't be shocked when a competitor that IS able to deal with customers blows you out of the water (and rightfully so!).

"Hey guys, I'm an Engineer, sooooo, fuck you."

[DSP74]

He has the right to be a prick to potential customers? OK, then I won't purchase his products. Easy enough. I don't see that as a right, sorry. I see that as a reason to never do business with a company.

I understand how impossible it would be to measure a difference in usable "handling" improvements of these products. Hence my point, how people can feel a handling difference on the street. That's all.

As I said, please prove me wrong, I'm all ears. I'm not the engineer here. So far I don't see any data though...

Gotta give a big fat +1 here.:p

Again I'll ask if the difference doesn't translate to ANY kind of reduced lap times on a car with poly bushings, spring/bar/shock package, and R compounds how does that unmeasureable difference equate to a handling improvement on the street??

With that said, I'll still install a strut brace in front before spring. And FWIW it won't be a Mason. Not now.

[DSP74]

keep the junk cheap bar ,after reading your chassis comprehension text, you are not ready for the good stuff

With 5 posts I would hope that you have more to contribute to the community than a few snide remarks. FWIW your only losing sales by doing this. All of course IMO.

[DCColegrove]

As to the improvements on the street, I can tell the difference (when I'm ripping up shit on Mulholland drive anyway)... If I couldn't I'd have tossed them to save the weight... And if nothing else the car will last longer.

To the best of my knowledge I am the only person who has ever had a BMW e30 chassis on a 7 post (plane) shaker...

That would leave me with data that nobody else has... (Data I haven't even shared with Mason himself).

It is very unlikely that any "competitor" can or will do this kind of testing on a 20 year old car.

Honestly.... Up until then I was one of the guys that said a rear brace was pointless...I got a surprise (odd, considering that I was involved with the development of the e30 in the first place...Time goes on...we learn new shit).

haha, what a fucking lame cop out. If that's truly the case, don't be shocked when a competitor that IS able to deal with customers blows you out of the water (and rightfully so!).

"Hey guys, I'm an Engineer, sooooo, fuck you."

Hmmm...

I think you missed the point... zoomed right past you...

The line is: "I've been at the top, doing this for XX number of years and I have heard all of this shit for just as long... Who needs it (the real money is in e46 and e90 now anyway)... Sooooo fuck you"

All of you seemed to miss that I said IF that is Mason... I don't really know.

Doesn't really matter if you buy it or not, the top of the line is just that...Nothing better.

[DSP74]

Well you are a supporting vendor so you should be able to freely show what it is you have available........I much prefer showing support to a)active, helpfull members of the community, and b)the small guy.

I can't make use of the X brace......

I'm all about light weight. A stiff LIGHT strutbrace?

[DCColegrove]

Well you are a supporting vendor so you should be able to freely show what it is you have available........I much prefer showing support to a)active, helpfull members of the community, and b)the small guy.

I can't make use of the X brace......

I'm all about light weight. A stiff LIGHT strutbrace?

That would be me...The small guy...A one man show...

These are the braces: http://bmwzenperformance.com/e30-products.html They are a bit different in material and finnish from the others like them John builds.

I became a site sponsor because I have really tried to contribute to R3V (answering technical questions usually via PM) and the powers that be here...being as cool as the are bestowed the honor of "Site Sponsor" on me

And Guys...Please Listen:

John Mason is from another planet, I've worked with him on some things and I use him to build my stuff (he's a one man show also).

MOST of the Top of the line e30 shit (BMP, Vorshlag etc) out there he had a hand in.

He's one of the good guy's, honest, a straigt shooter, welds better than a machine and can build shit like a motherfucker... but... Just no people skills.

You get that way after 35 years or so....

And again I don't know if JJMtoos or whatever is him.