FYI - some N52 oil pan research

[hoveringuy]

Those ports are so sexy - very very awesome! Interesting that the fuel injector port is cast into the head - means that N52 intake manifolds can't be used on M50/M52 motors even with an adapter plate! :(

He has some of the pictures upside-down compared to what you're used to; I think those are air passages for the idle circuit. Same port that's circled on my M54 pic.

I was was also looking at the head design... no hydraulic lifters??

Also, does this motor have a dipstick?

[Leo_328i]

When you look at pics of the N52 intake manifolds they dont seem to have injectors ports, at least not in the same position as the M50/M52 ones, they are either underneath or in the actual head of the car.

[hoveringuy]

I found a cutaway picture of an N52 head that shows exactly how the cam actuates the valves. It does have hydraulic lifters, but the lifter isn't directly over the valve stem like we're used to, it becomes the fulcrum on the other end of the rocker arm. Its mass doesn't move with the valve, it's stationary which is pretty cool. It has a 7000 rpm redline.

N52's are known to have oiling issues with the lifters up until about 2008, the lifters get a lot of air and the motors are known for ticking.

[!kid]

Damn that's cool. I work on Nissan engines all day, assembled a couple VQ37VHR engines with the variable intake cam lift. Cool stuff but when I look at this new BMW engine, makes the new Nissans look like old technology Hahah

[Leo_328i]

For the sake of continuing this discussion...

The way I see it, a lot of the work has already been done for us: there are only large hurdles that need to be overcome:

Engine Mounting - Use E85 Z4 engine arms with E28 5 Series mounts.

Lucky thing that the N52 came in the first generation Z4 which is basically an E46 underneath, the mounting dimensions between E36/E46 are pretty much identical - the front subframes mounting hard points are millimeter identical and judging by the the fact that we all know that the external block dimensions are the same at a mounting point of view...


Gearbox - All the usual M5X knowledge applies, same bellhousing pattern

Question though - are the N52 engines tilted 30 degrees like the M5X motors? Even if the tilt is different, we all know this can easily be overcome in similar ways that everyone has done with G260s on M5X motors.




So then onto the problems...

1. Oil sump/subframe clearance

Possible solutions...

A) Re drilling of bolting holes on an E34 M50 sump to make it fit? Probably not that simple as the N52 sump bolt holes at either end of the sump look to be slightly different.

B) Cutting the top off part of the sump off an N52 sump and welding that onto the top of an E34 M50 sump so you have a 'hybrid' sump.

C) Custom subframe that leaves more room to mount the stock subframe

D) E60 528XI sump as suggested above.

2. ECU Setup

Option 1 - Flash stock ECU to delete EWS, CANBUS, etc

This would require somebody with what Liam Nielsen would describe as "A particular set of skills" and may be quite expensive.

Option 2 - Megasquirt Setup

Complexity of this solution requires the control of an electric waterpump, variable capicity oil pump, VALVETRONIC (although not essential), DISA and Double-VANOS to retain factory-like driveability.

http://www.mwerks.com/artman/publish/features/printer_960.shtml

[e30shmobberr]

just curious why n52? why not n54 and have the holy grail?

[VinniE30]

just curious why n52? why not n54 and have the holy grail?

This is the way I see it...
The n52 is the lightest straight 6 ever and the lightest per hp output. It has a very linear power curve and it doesn't have the added stress and complexity issues that come with boost, to compare it to the n54.
The only real advantage the n54 has over it is power, which is great for something like a drag car, but if you want that then why not just boost the m20 or one of the e36 engines..
With the e30 being so light, 250hp is more than enough IMO. Once you get over 300hp, especially with tons of low-rpm torque like the n54, you have big traction issues, and you also need to start thinking about rear end reinforcements and upgrades (like the axles). It becomes more of a show car, drag car, or drift car then a daily driver or autox/hpde car. The advantage of the n52 over the n54 is the weight and being able to better put down the power.

If your goal is getting huge power for cheap then neither the n52 or n54 swaps are for you. You would probably be best off boosting an m20 or e36 m5x engine.
If your goal is getting the lightest front end while still having very fast e30 with a great linear power curve from a naturally aspirated engine then the n52 is great. That also comes with you being the first to do it and it being one of a kind.

[hoveringuy]

If your goal is getting huge power for cheap then neither the n52 or n54 swaps are for you. You would probably be best off boosting an m20 or e36 m5x engine.
If your goal is getting the lightest front end while still having very fast e30 with a great linear power curve from a naturally aspirated engine then the n52 is great. That also comes with you being the first to do it and it being one of a kind.

Well said. I'll tell anyone that cares to listen about how bitchin' the M54 is, not only that it has plenty of power and a flat torque curve, but also that it's LIGHT! The N52 would be more powerful and lighter yet.

Does it share the oil pump harmonics issue with the M54?

[VinniE30]

Does it share the oil pump harmonics issue with the M54?

I doubt it. The n52 was basically completely new engine, not an evolution of it's predecessor like the m54 which sharing it's basic design with the e36 engines.
The only common issue I could find was the ticking issue in the early ones.
I haven't found any instances of the oil pump nut problem the m5x has, and the engine revs to 7k rpm stock, so if it does have some harmonics issue then it occurs above the redline.
Also, the n52 has a larger bore and shorter stroke than the m54, usually that results in a more rev happy, smoother engine at high rpms.(less stress on the crank)

[MattAvino]

dry sump....

[Gleb]

so, how much does a N52 actually weigh? It can't be lighter than a M20, or is it?

[hoveringuy]

so, how much does a N52 actually weigh? It can't be lighter than a M20, or is it?

Actually about 40-70lbs lighter, depending on where you get the data.

Magnesium and Aluminum (and plastic) vs iron and aluminum.

[VinniE30]

so, how much does a N52 actually weigh? It can't be lighter than a M20, or is it?

It's hard to compare engine weights because they are usually from different sources and weighed differently, and there is a lack of reliable info out there. But we can still figure it out...

First, check out my engine weights thread:

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=233682

BMW said the N52 is 161KG / 354LBS in an official press release.

BMW used Alusil aluminum cylinder sleeves, which offer high heat conductivity, and cast them into a lightweight magnesium block,[1] creating one of the lightest production engines of its size class in the world at 161 kg (354 lb)

However, there is no official weight from BMW on the M20.

But people have weighed it before, with pics, FWIW...

Fully dressed engine weights by r3v people and others:
Drew325is:

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=99913

M20 = 180.3 kg = 397.49 lbs

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d63/Drew325iS/M52weigh_in.jpg

Aluminum block M52B28 = 148.85 kg = 328.16 lbs

Vorshlag:

http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/Projects/E30-V8/engine-weight-M20/718878198_ovpJf-M.jpg

M20 + G260 transmission = 497lbs

But my hypothesis is that the BMW official quoted weights not only include all accessories, but also include fluids or something making the engines heavier than what enthusiasts quoted have weighed them at, since the weight measured by drew325is for his aluminum M52 is much less than quoted online (presumably by BMW) (see engine weights thread for full explanation)
So from that I conclude from that and the weights above that the N52 is at the very least around 40-50 lbs less than the M20, but likely even more than that.

Here's the full article on the N52 where some of the info is from:

http://www.mwerks.com/artman/publish/features/article_960.shtml

[Gleb]

Thank you very much! Good info!

[Massimo]

Hmm this is making me want to do an N52 swap. Will see if funds can support this at the end of the year.