Andrew's S54 Swap

[gobuffs]

If you can find a tuner that can flash an MSS70, I have one on the shelf for sale.

[Andrew325is]

If you can find a tuner that can flash an MSS70, I have one on the shelf for sale.

That really would be the ideal ECU. There's got to be someone who can do it since people are putting S85's in their E30's and the MSS65 is similar as far as I know.

[nando]

why is it so much better? I mean it's faster, but.. what does that really mean? did injector timing accuracy increase by 1000%? did ignition timing accuracy increase 5x?

you learn as you really get into standalones and stock computers that faster doesn't really mean a whole lot. there are some things that are good to have better precision/faster processing for but they are also diminishing returns.

if you tell me the fuel map is 2x the size, I'll yawn. :p

[Andrew325is]

why is it so much better? I mean it's faster, but.. what does that really mean? did injector timing accuracy increase by 1000%? did ignition timing accuracy increase 5x?

you learn as you really get into standalones and stock computers that faster doesn't really mean a whole lot. there are some things that are good to have better precision/faster processing for but they are also diminishing returns.

if you tell me the fuel map is 2x the size, I'll yawn. :p

What's faster is the throttle response when pressing the accelerator pedal due to the increase in processing power: 64 million calculations per second. Compare that with the MSS54 which is capable of 25 million calculations per second, which is just slightly more than the older MSS50's capability of 20 million calculations per second. BMW claims in their Z4 M Roadster press release the faster processing, "helps to improve emission management," then goes on to talk about the double-VANOS, so I assume that operates faster as well. Of course neither ECU compares to the MSS60 & MSS65 (E90 M3 & E60 M5) which are capable of 200 million calculations per second. :)

[nando]

eh. I doubt you would even notice. most likely, it's for emissions. I can't see the extra cost and trouble being worthwhile, unless MSS70 is considerably easier to tune than MSS54.

I can't recall ever hearing anyone complain that the throttle response of an S54 was slow, or there was any detectable lag.

the S54 in the Z4m makes the same HP right?

[Andrew325is]

Yeah basically. I've heard from people it was better (instant is the word), but I haven't driven a Z4M myself.

[ohthejosh]

Thanks for documenting your swap thoroughly. Will be referring to this thread for guidance.

[nando]

on the subject of E-throttle control - some interesting stuff has come up recently. Apparently, the US S54 tune doesn't open the throttle more than 75% until after 4000rpm. It doesn't reach 100% until 5000rpm. The solution is to use the EU tune or the CSL tune which are both much, much more aggressive.

the thinking is the US tune was limited to 75% throttle for emissions reasons.

[Andrew325is]

on the subject of E-throttle control - some interesting stuff has come up recently. Apparently, the US S54 tune doesn't open the throttle more than 75% until after 4000rpm. It doesn't reach 100% until 5000rpm. The solution is to use the EU tune or the CSL tune which are both much, much more aggressive.

the thinking is the US tune was limited to 75% throttle for emissions reasons.

Hmm, that's interesting. Everyone should make sure their tuner flashes their ECU with the latest version of Euro software then. :)

[Andrew325is]

Thanks for documenting your swap thoroughly. Will be referring to this thread for guidance.

I didn't go into too much detail about anything, so if you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.

[Asbradley21]

on the subject of E-throttle control - some interesting stuff has come up recently. Apparently, the US S54 tune doesn't open the throttle more than 75% until after 4000rpm. It doesn't reach 100% until 5000rpm. The solution is to use the EU tune or the CSL tune which are both much, much more aggressive.

the thinking is the US tune was limited to 75% throttle for emissions reasons.

Still seems to me like more reason for manual throttle. The one from bimmerworld claims to have solved the sticky modulation issues of the other manual setups, appears to be a different design than VAC and Sunbelt Link

[e30shmobberr]

this car. damn!

[nando]

Still seems to me like more reason for manual throttle. The one from bimmerworld claims to have solved the sticky modulation issues of the other manual setups, appears to be a different design than VAC and Sunbelt Link

it also costs $350. that's $350 you could spend on headers or something worthwile. that would buy you almost 4 hours of dyno time, for example.

it's trivial to retune the E-throttle, and it's also basically free. and, I still doubt it responds the same way, as Andrew said, the S54 ITBs were never meant to be used with a throttle cable linkage.

If you look at an S54 throttle map, there's a lot of resolution in the low-RPM, low-load range. The S54 throttles are large and it has a short ram intake. A small change in throttle angle at low load will result in a large increase in air. It also affects transient response (AE).

Basically, IMO, there's no reason to use a throttle cable at all, unless you're not using MSS54 then you have no choice.

Heck, even Bimmerworld says it's not suggested if you have the stock DME:

This part is not required or suggested with the BimmerWorld S54 Conversion electronics or any stock ECU application.

[Wanganstyle]

it also costs $350. that's $350 you could spend on headers or something worthwile. that would buy you almost 4 hours of dyno time, for example.

it's trivial to retune the E-throttle, and it's also basically free. and, I still doubt it responds the same way, as Andrew said, the S54 ITBs were never meant to be used with a throttle cable linkage.

If you look at an S54 throttle map, there's a lot of resolution in the low-RPM, low-load range. The S54 throttles are large and it has a short ram intake. A small change in throttle angle at low load will result in a large increase in air. It also affects transient response (AE).

Basically, IMO, there's no reason to use a throttle cable at all, unless you're not using MSS54 then you have no choice.

Heck, even Bimmerworld says it's not suggested if you have the stock DME:

Agreed. As much as I like analog throttle the oem ethrottle is damm good
And I daily drove a cable coversion throttle s54 in hilly san Francisco happily

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[anaphe]

Andrew, I called Orme Brothers and they said they have never sold a m22 female to -10 AN Male, would you have a part number?

They do have an m22 (f) to -12AN (m)?

If you had a PN that would be great.

thanks

Anthony
anaphe@gmail.com