S54 making the jump

[BenM]

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2nd



Hey Mr. Two-Posts, do you know what your talking about, you'd better be able to provide links/pics of what you think gives you the ability to make these claims... Maybe you should read around a bit here first. S54 is gonna need styandalone or a complete donor car, and, lots of wiring labor.

bingo.

Oh and IBTB.

[nando]

Hey Mr. Two-Posts, do you know what your talking about, you'd better be able to provide links/pics of what you think gives you the ability to make these claims... Maybe you should read around a bit here first. S54 is gonna need styandalone or a complete donor car, and, lots of wiring labor.

that's what he said?

I don't get why everyone is so worried about using an EMS on the S54...

It's just a motor people... it's not like they've reinvented the wheel.

And you don't need a $5000 stand alone to do it either.

I'm pretty sure he meant you don't need a Bosch Motorsport ECU, but something nice out of Australia would run about $1500 and work very well.

how much do you know about engine management farbin.. I'm betting nothing?

[Farbin Kaiber]

Yeah Nando, I'm sure Wolf is ample, and prolly a great option, but it came off as if this guy was implying something else from what I got from it.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Hey Mr. Two-Posts, do you know what your talking about, you'd better be able to provide links/pics of what you think gives you the ability to make these claims... Maybe you should read around a bit here first. S54 is gonna need standalone or a complete donor car, and, lots of wiring labor.

I'm not here to start an argument. I'm here to give you my OPPINION (that is allowed here isn't it?) on what I think about the situation. Even though I don't believe you are here to help anyone with the attitude that you're better because you have a higher post count :roll:

The S54 isn't all that complicated (or at least it doesn't need to be IMO).

Any decent stand alone will run that motor w/o a problem. I see only the double VANOS control being the biggest issue. And really, why bother with it when going aftermarket ECU. Locking the cams won't give you the best economy, or emissions, or probably even power. But the percentage of loss isn't going to be all that much.

IF you get an EMS that will control both cams in a similar manner as the OE ECU, where the hell is anyone going to get the information for the proper cam positioning? That would involve a whole whack of time, money and effort for not so huge gains. Unless some of this information could eventually be extracted from an OE ECU where the cam phasing is properly setup it's better IMO just to omit the VANOS completely.

As for my first post about a stock E30 w/ 400RWHP... Yea I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about. As he's a very good friend of mine, I helped build that car, I've driven the car many times, I did the EMS install and tuned the car. The car is 100% stock drivetrain/body wise, and the car is beaten on every single day/time it gets driven. The chassis/motor/transmission has well over 280 000km on it...

I've personally owned 2 E30's myself (non boosted) as well. I'm not new to these cars in any way. So don't automatically assume people don't know what they're talking about just because they're a new member and have a small post count. I don't believe I was rude in my posts either.

Thanks

[BeirBrennerE30]

there is already an ems out there that is all set up to run the s54 with dual vanos and everything... plug and play as you can get.

[hoveringuy]

there is already an ems out there that is all set up to run the s54 with dual vanos and everything... plug and play as you can get.

Which one? Link, please.

I second Matt on the M54. Cheaper, lighter, still has tons of power. They're doing it in Poland, why can't we??

[NOTORIOUS VR]

there is already an ems out there that is all set up to run the s54 with dual vanos and everything... plug and play as you can get.

I've seen you say this a few times before in other threads about the S54....

anyways, after some digging I've found this on Evosport's site:

Evosport/AEM EMS (Advanced), Hardwired - BMW S54 OBD2 (01+) - $3,595

They make no PnP system for the S54, it's a race only system. Meaning they didn't make it PnP because they can't. The original chassis electronics wouldn't work with just an AEM EMS in the car. So they only offer an ECU for swaps basically.

On top of this, what makes you thing that everything works right out of the box? As far as I can tell they only give you a base map to make the car idle. Which pretty much means to me, there is no mapped cam phasing included, and if there were, how good is it? Is it really proper like an OE ECU is? There are wayyy too many variables here.

I think a lot of people are underestimating how much info, time and equipment you need to setup infinitely variable cams.

[BeirBrennerE30]

why dont you call them and ask... they build some of the best bmw racecars in the country including nes with aem powerd s54. it is my understanding that it can do dual vanos out of the box and it is tunable.
it can do whatever you ask them to make it do.

s54 swaps pose no technical challenge not done before on this forum... unless you want the oem dme.

I've seen you say this a few times before in other threads about the S54....

anyways, after some digging I've found this on Evosport's site:

Evosport/AEM EMS (Advanced), Hardwired - BMW S54 OBD2 (01+) - $3,595

They make no PnP system for the S54, it's a race only system. Meaning they didn't make it PnP because they can't. The original chassis electronics wouldn't work with just an AEM EMS in the car. So they only offer an ECU for swaps basically.

On top of this, what makes you thing that everything works right out of the box? As far as I can tell they only give you a base map to make the car idle. Which pretty much means to me, there is no mapped cam phasing included, and if there were, how good is it? Is it really proper like an OE ECU is? There are wayyy too many variables here.

I think a lot of people are underestimating how much info, time and equipment you need to setup infinitely variable cams.

[madjurgen]

Bimmerworld has at least one if not more e30/e36 racecars with S54s running with stock engine management with I believe dual vanos enabled.

[E30Kaiser]

Bimmerworld has at least one if not more e30/e36 racecars with S54s running with stock engine management with I believe dual vanos enabled.

I heard this too from people who work there, some guy in Germany found out how to get the S54 ECU to work in an E30 and passed it along.

[1fastcosmo]

Nobody besides MITE46 has done an S54 in an E30 with stock EMS, as far as I know.

With this swap, knowledge can bring the price down. The more you farm out the more it will cost. Using stock EMS and a 5 speed transmission you had better budget around $10-12K minimum.

terry sayther did this and it runs on stock engine management(from the s54)its a e30 touring with e30 m3 fenders.SWEET CAR.

[FredK]

yeah, I think Bimmerworld has a solution where you only need to wire in ignition, fuel pump, alternator, and a few other items and it also runs on stock EMS.

[madjurgen]

Posted today:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13724018&postcount=265

[NOTORIOUS VR]

why dont you call them and ask... they build some of the best bmw racecars in the country including nes with aem powerd s54. it is my understanding that it can do dual vanos out of the box and it is tunable.
it can do whatever you ask them to make it do.

s54 swaps pose no technical challenge not done before on this forum... unless you want the oem dme.

I'm not really interetsted in their system for me to call them. My friend will be doing an S54 turbo swap very soon. I will be controlling it with one of the ECU's I specialize in namely VEMS.

From what you just wrote, you really don't know either if they have a cam phasing program. I know that AEM can PWM control the solenoids for dual VANOS, that's not really a big deal since a lot of stand alones have PWM outputs and mappable tables.

The problem is actually MAPPING for cam phasing. It's a huge thing to do. Not only do u just have to map the cams, you have to remap the ENTIRE engines VE and timing, since you're actually changing the way the motor breaths (hence the VE).

In either case, when we do my firends project, we'll be locking the cams with the VAC kit.

[Lag]

Good luck with your project, I am seriously considering the same swap into my M. I already have SM4 sitting here in a box ready to go. Just trying to do more research prior to committing. Although I feel confident in going with the S54.

I would just like to know if it would be possible to utilize the factory cluster in the e30 just for temp, speed, rpm and temp. I would like to keep it a street car.