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N52 oil pan design for Z4 engine arm based swap

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    N52 oil pan design for Z4 engine arm based swap

    Placeholder first post here and solicitation for anyone's ideas as I break this out. Ideally at some point in the near future this first post will have a link to a zip file of flat pieces that can be ordered to build (or have someone build) and oil pan with a front sump for an n52 to drop into an e30. We have at least two running n52's in this configuration at the moment. Here's a short list of what I intend to include that I'll edit until I get the files ready:

    -Thick flange to avoid warping during assembly: this flange will be the same thickness as the automatic transmission aluminum pan

    -Geometry that puts the bottom of the sump at the same or higher elevation than the standard m20 pan (no reduced clearance like m5x e34 pan swaps). Standard m20 skidplates will fit (and of course m5x skidplates)

    -Adequate clearance for the steering rack using z4 mounts (existing files on the forum here prior to 12/22/22 are VERY tight against the rack when using Z4 mounts)

    -Optional weld-in baffle

    -Markings to cut the e30 oil level sender

    -Markings for a dipstick tube

    -Markings for a drain bung

    -Markings for the PCV drain

    -Better rear clearance at the crank journal (We've had to bevel this)

    -Better clearance for bolting? (we had to do some ball peening to get bolts in)

    Bug me here with your ideas, I'll either roll them in or not depending on my mood

    #2
    Any chance a Subframe that will fit a rear sump stock s52/s54/m54/n52 oil pan.

    Less need for skid plate, Have front mounted sway bar for header clearance. 1 part fits 4 motors. Steering rack mounting from opposite side.

    I think Bayside is building them this way now.

    I was up above it, Now I'm down in it ~ Entropy - A Build thread.
    @Zakspeed_US

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      #3
      Originally posted by moatilliatta View Post
      Any chance a Subframe that will fit a rear sump stock s52/s54/m54/n52 oil pan.

      Less need for skid plate, Have front mounted sway bar for header clearance. 1 part fits 4 motors. Steering rack mounting from opposite side.

      I think Bayside is building them this way now.
      Totally different conversation - and *way* harder to release as an opensourced DIY because it needs to be built on a jig. The steering rack of the e30 physically interferes with the rear sump pans on all of these engines so the Bayside subframe still requires a modified pan (or any subframe that moves the steering rack forward to avoid this would create significant issues with steering)

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        #4
        Originally posted by moatilliatta View Post
        Any chance a Subframe that will fit a rear sump stock s52/s54/m54/n52 oil pan.


        I think Bayside is building them this way now.
        I've had a modified subframe with rear sump. There's really not much of an advantage and you need to move the sway bar up front. I actually had more oil pressure issues with the rear sump than I do presently (zero..). The rear sump would get me the oil light under heavy downhill braking because all the oil was pinned to the front. Never had a single issue with the front sump, either with oil pressure or clearance. I've even had an "off" where I bashed the pan on the curbing re-entering the track and it was nothing. Steel... Plus, the front is beveled in the genius design so there's nothing square to catch.

        If the pan becomes any narrower front-to-rear I would add that capacity back in the wing because 4 QT capacity should be the minimum.

        These pictures are when it had the original arms that had the motor even lower than it is now:

        Click image for larger version

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        Last edited by hoveringuy; 12-22-2022, 01:09 PM.

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          #5
          Most subframes need reinforcements, and or cracked up. A good developed fresh one would be nice.

          With development of spec E9X there maybe a better oil pan baffle available to fit in the stock oil pan.

          The setup with the steering rack being grabbed by the front looks to have the steering rack pretty darn close.

          I've had oil starvation in spec E30's with a poor designed baffle and street tires in brake zones before.
          Last edited by moatilliatta; 12-22-2022, 01:16 PM.

          I was up above it, Now I'm down in it ~ Entropy - A Build thread.
          @Zakspeed_US

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            #6
            Here's what oil pan origami looks like. Those 3 pieces make the entire pan. Plus the flange and then baffles.


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            Last edited by hoveringuy; 12-22-2022, 01:26 PM.

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              #7
              Originally posted by moatilliatta View Post

              With development of spec E9X there maybe a better oil pan baffle available to fit in the stock oil pan.

              I've had oil starvation in spec E30's with a poor designed baffle and street tires in brake zones before.
              True, but here's another detail I don't think has been mentioned before. Cosworth oil control flaps!

              This doesn't show them installed, they look like the second picture.

              "oil gets in but doesn't get out..."


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                #8
                Defiantly need a trap door of some sort in a baffle. The key is they don't open past 45* to keep slosh / reserve down. Rubber ones are nice. Just spitting out what I know from over the years.

                I was up above it, Now I'm down in it ~ Entropy - A Build thread.
                @Zakspeed_US

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by moatilliatta View Post
                  Defiantly need a trap door of some sort in a baffle. The key is they don't open past 45* to keep slosh / reserve down. Rubber ones are nice. Just spitting out what I know from over the years.
                  Love the energy, just please understand that the solicitation here is for oil pan wishlist items for a front sump oil pan. With the new (as of like... last night?) N5x subforum, go bananas with a separate subframe development thread.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Copy that. That's all the ideas ill bug you with for now.

                    I was up above it, Now I'm down in it ~ Entropy - A Build thread.
                    @Zakspeed_US

                    Comment


                      #11
                      What dipstick are you using? I havent looked too much, but i am thinking something along these lines : https://www.amazon.com/Canton-Racing...7-93deae8f9840

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by plain325 View Post
                        What dipstick are you using? I havent looked too much, but i am thinking something along these lines : https://www.amazon.com/Canton-Racing...7-93deae8f9840
                        I used a rigid tube dipstick that was like $20 from Jegs. I didn't like the idea of the floppy one because it depended on a good connection up top, my tube is basically self-supporting and I just use a zip -tie to the intake manifold.

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                          #13
                          Let me start by saying without your incredible work, i would not have thought i could undertake this project.....
                          I lowered the pan by 1/2" added a little notch for rack clearance, added some clearance for the crank and for the bolts, and added some slope to the rear of the pan.
                          The bottom of the pan is still higher than the steering rack, and considering i havent had a problem in 10yrs with an m50 pan, i think it will be ok for me.
                          I will be glad to share the files, i ordered the parts mostly pre bent, the small bends i did in a vice.
                          When the design gets better finialized we should figure out a group buy or something, the price drops considerably when ordering in quantity.
                          Click image for larger version

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                          Attached Files

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                            #14
                            I like! It's like a metal origami project, right?? What gauge for the pan material? 18? I did bash mine when I went off the track and re-entered, it smacked the bottom pretty good and there's a tiny gouge now, no bigee...

                            I haven't decided if it's better to tack the pan together and then do the bead to the heavier flange, and then go back and finish the pan, or to do the flange last. It does tend to want to warp a little doing the flange so doing the pan last might make that easier?

                            The bends are important. A cheesy Harbor Freight bender won't get the crisp bends you want and will leave you with soft radiuses that won't fit together well.

                            Excited to see your finished pan!!

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                              #15
                              Hell yea buddy! Get after it!!

                              Turn your engine over with a wrench before you crank it. Hoveringuy found interference between the crank and the rear of the pan flange, and mine was so close I decided to bevel it anyway. Somewhere in a thread I have some pictures of some play doh showing how much clearance I had.

                              I thought my mig welding would be good enough but chased bubbles again and again with the pressure testing rig we built. Take a deep breath and don’t rush that part.

                              One of the bolts at the front also takes some peening to slip in. Watch out for that. You might find insetting a section of pipe to be easier.

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