N54 swap?

[328ijunkie]

* edit
I didn't quote this properly... sorry. Read between your quote for my responses

Hey thanks. I try not to sound too biased. I hope mostly to provide information about the subject. I can't tell you how many conversations I have DAILY regarding factory ECU vs the aftermarket solutions I provide. It is all kind of a massive joke to me considering what I do.



Yes.... I have :). I know a lot about this, because like you said, I looked into supporting it. The factory header splits the input into two pins so the pins don't melt, and then the H-Bridge output is split into two pairs (4 pins) and then tied together in the engine harness. I can make something to run the motor, but there is a lot of other issues. One big one isthe position sensors are super high resolution binary sensors. They are not analog inputs anymore, and they have redundancy.

Now... every BMW engine has Valvetronic too. They all use the fancy position sensor, but now the motor is a brushless DC motor (since N55). This is more efficient current consumption wise, but the control strategy is more complicated. Currently the aftermarket is just catching up on BLDC motor controls, and this is in the form of running fuel pumps mostly. Valvetronic can be done... the question is will developing the function be worth it? Like I said, anytime you are throttling the engine, the valve lift is at max. It is used for pumping losses regarding fuel economy, and emissions regarding the valve phasing concept at medium lifts. For N52 for example, I just crank them to max lift, and control engine load with the throttle (which it does anyways to a certain extent). It is a tough subject because my first thought is to run EVERYTHING, and then allow the user to switch off what they don't want to use (this is what I did with the E46M3, E39M5), but lately the truth is... the aftermarket ECU is intended for motorsport performance. So, that must be considered.

I have a ton of scope traces, diagrams, and other info. I didn't mean to hijack the thread (but I did... sorry), but feel free to ask any other questions. When I have a second I will reply.

S55/n55 regulate boost with valvetronic in many cases. It doesn't just go max lift when you go WOT....

[grinchxvx]

Dream swap, my FBO 135i only makes 400whp 450ftlbs and it spins the tires in 1-3rd. I couldn't imagine that in a e30👀👀😎


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[nando]

No different than a turbo m20 or m50 would be.

Actually the best thing about the n54 is reduced weight, you can already make more power than most n54s make with a simple m50, or even an m20.

[The Dark Side of Will]

If modern DME can be cracked enough for a swap, the real beauty would be the N26... significantly lighter than the N54, but still capable of 300 HP/350TQ

[nando]

If modern DME can be cracked enough for a swap, the real beauty would be the N26... significantly lighter than the N54, but still capable of 300 HP/350TQ

I don't doubt that it will happen eventually - but it's even harder than the S54 was. The DME uses RSA encryption for one. That might actually be a case where aftermarket management makes more sense - if there was one that supported valvetronic!

[The Dark Side of Will]

I don't doubt that it will happen eventually - but it's even harder than the S54 was. The DME uses RSA encryption for one. That might actually be a case where aftermarket management makes more sense - if there was one that supported valvetronic!

There are some pretty wild engine management options on the market... $8k Bosch Motorsport units.

I've heard about an outfit called Engine Labs, which is supposed to have some pretty awesome features.

There are also some of the options NPavlo mentioned.

RSA encryption on the DME? That's tough. Is that what's necessary to flash it? IE, if you do a .bin dump it comes out encrypted?

[nando]

I think you can read it but you cant correct the checksum without knowing BMWs private key.

[mitchlevy7]

Somebody do it...

But with these....



(gtx3071R x 2. GTX3582R's also fit)

I know, it won't fit. Let me dream. On the 335i the rear WG sits in a little pocket that I am sure the e30 doesnt have... and i can imagine that rear turbo would never fit.

In terms of the swap electronics, My company makes a port injection intake manifold spacer so you can run 6 extra injectors. I am sure you can use it to run a full non-DI standalone and be able to not have to use the stock ECU. Although you do loose all the benefits of D.I., it makes it so much easier. Bisimoto is doing it on the ecoboost mustang and running a Infinity. Seems like the easy way out to me, but it's the quickest route to getting the N54 running in an e30.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I think you can read it but you cant correct the checksum without knowing BMWs private key.

Ahhh... that was thoughtful of them.

[nando]

Somebody do it...

But with these....



(gtx3071R x 2. GTX3582R's also fit)

I know, it won't fit. Let me dream. On the 335i the rear WG sits in a little pocket that I am sure the e30 doesnt have... and i can imagine that rear turbo would never fit.

In terms of the swap electronics, My company makes a port injection intake manifold spacer so you can run 6 extra injectors. I am sure you can use it to run a full non-DI standalone and be able to not have to use the stock ECU. Although you do loose all the benefits of D.I., it makes it so much easier. Bisimoto is doing it on the ecoboost mustang and running a Infinity. Seems like the easy way out to me, but it's the quickest route to getting the N54 running in an e30.

I just dont get why you'd go through the effort when you can make 700hp on an m50 and an fbo 335i is only 450-500. There are m20s making 450hp on 15psi..

[berlow94]

Somebody do it...

But with these....



(gtx3071R x 2. GTX3582R's also fit)

I know, it won't fit. Let me dream. On the 335i the rear WG sits in a little pocket that I am sure the e30 doesnt have... and i can imagine that rear turbo would never fit.

In terms of the swap electronics, My company makes a port injection intake manifold spacer so you can run 6 extra injectors. I am sure you can use it to run a full non-DI standalone and be able to not have to use the stock ECU. Although you do loose all the benefits of D.I., it makes it so much easier. Bisimoto is doing it on the ecoboost mustang and running a Infinity. Seems like the easy way out to me, but it's the quickest route to getting the N54 running in an e30.

Dat torque converter tho!!

Curious of what the torque/hp curve of something like this is though compared to a 450hp m20... (Even with that silly fluid filled thing sucking away all of its hopes and dreams)

[Northern]

If I wanted bigger turbos on an N54, I'd just go RB's. Pretty excessive to go beyond that.

[the imitator]

Dream swap, my FBO 135i only makes 400whp 450ftlbs and it spins the tires in 1-3rd. I couldn't imagine that in a e30������


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No different than a turbo m20 or m50 would be.

Actually the best thing about the n54 is reduced weight, you can already make more power than most n54s make with a simple m50, or even an m20.

Not sure if I'd trust an M50 stock internals never cracked open,
running 500-550hp daily?
More balls than I have, I don't like to baby cars with lots of power.

If you think the best thing about the N54 is reduced weight compared to older engines, then why aren't you going with M54? It seems the n52 crowd seems to prefer the Rawness of the M54 compared to the N52, not to mention reliability and cost; Z4 owners are a good example.

I understand you're N52 biased but dang, can we keep this a little more factual? You're comparing motors that need to be reworked, to a FBO engine that hasn't been touched internally, that will run hell of a lot more smooth. Apples to apples not so much. Additionally, as you've mentioned, who needs even 450hp in an e30 that's a lot of go , and if I have that hp, it should drive comfortable for a daily. Not to mention the Torque curve of the N54 is just amazing!!!

People are in the 600hp+ with bolt ons, and turbo/turbos nothing done internally, great start for anyone who wants to make power without paying labor costs on engine builds, and assuming you're doing the labor yourself, imagine what you could do with an N54. This forum has tons of gentleman willing to take a dive for discovery.:D

At least with my experience comparing to my M30b35 build I had already spent more on JUST the turbo parts, than I payed for my whole N54B30 with wiring, and all modules. I hadn't even purchased a turbo for my m30 build yet.

EDIT:

If I wanted bigger turbos on an N54, I'd just go RB's. Pretty excessive to go beyond that.

I think for those who actually want to do this swap, wont be resorting to companies the build off stock frames.
With this community I'm going to assume most will save a ton of money by fabbing their own top mount,
and throwing on a turbo that is similar to what is supported in mainstream use for the N54 for the sake of simplicity. awesome plan if you ask me.

[Northern]

Not sure if I'd trust an M50 stock internals never cracked open,
running 500-550hp daily?
More balls than I have, I don't like to baby cars with lots of power.

Pretty common for people to slap an MLS or cutring/spacer and ARP's and pump out 500+ with a tune on the stock ECU for the M5x.

why aren't you going with M54?

Shit crank harmonics are probably a big thing, and there's nothing particularly good about it other than the aluminum block. May as well do an E36 engine more easily/cheaper/better if that's your argument.

At least the N52 seems to be more rev happy, and has a much sturdier split crankcase. Cool new tech like valvetronic seems to be a bonus if the ecu is possible to use with a swap.

I think for those who actually want to do this swap, wont be resorting to companies the build off stock frames.
With this community I'm going to assume most will save a ton of money by fabbing their own top mount,
and throwing on a turbo that is similar to what is supported in mainstream use for the N54 for the sake of simplicity. awesome plan if you ask me.

That's fair. I wasn't really thinking from a swap perspective, just a "two GT35Rs is extremely unnecessary" point of view. If I'm changing that much of what it has going for it, I may as well take a $300 M52 and throw boost at it instead though.

[328ijunkie]

M/s52 flows better with a turbo than a n54 does... Food for thought.