N52 Swap Discussion

[nando]

Off the top of my head, I'm not sure what markings are on the engine, but either it will have a different engine code, part number, or it will have a VIN which you can decode and find it. The only thing on the outside is it has extra smog equipment that the n52 doesn't.

You don't need to delete the booster. the X3 booster should easily fit with the N54 manifold. Additionally, the Tesla Model S (or similar) boosters work really well and leave tons of room for the intake.

[ralle30]

Awesome, I'm going to have to get on the stick and re-read the thread and extract a proper project list.

Where on the block would I find the code to differentiate N51 vs N52? Any other visual clues (like the VANOS hump to tell M50 vs M50tu)?

I saw an add on CL for a part-out asking $1k for engine + trans together (says N52, no specifics on the trans), about 96k on the engine. Assuming that's the 6sp manual and not an auto, is that decent or should I be able to do better?
A quick search on car-part.com showed mostly more $$, but it's a hassle as you have to put in model and year etc

I'm 95% sure I'll be headed down the route of N54 intake and S54 headers. I've been itching to ditch the brake booster for awhile anyway (poor feel in the offroad conditions) so this is also a great opportunity to make that swap as well. Gives me the option to stay N52 manifold if it works better for the application (rallycross is mostly well-served with torque over HP - lots of pulls out of slow corners - but on the other hand once we're out and running a straight it's definitely high revs!).

hoveringuy Thank you so much for the offer to come see your car, that would be most excellent! Would you be available this weekend to meet up?

[nando]

yeah, any N52 will work - there's a bazillion 525i's, 328i's, Z4s, X3s, and even X5s out there with N52B30s. For the engine itself pretty much any of them will work. After 2011 they even came in F series cars, but those are somewhat rare and I'm not sure on all the differences (even though I own one, lol). Also make sure you check the VIN on the block to make sure it's not an N51.

MSV70 came on Z4s, the early E90s, and the E60s. Any model will work, as long as the DME is an MSV70 (it's going to get flashed over anyway).

[hoveringuy]

Let's say I get a plan together for dealing with the engine mount and oil pan - what is the best / simplest path forward for obtaining an engine, harness and transmission?

Donor car? Piecemeal?
If a donor car - is any particular body more/less desirable, or just whatever you can find the best deal on?

Lots of questions to resolve and it seems like a lot until you get comfortable with the scope.

I'll start with the donor car. Unless you find an N52 Z4 getting a donor car won't help much. In my case, I searched a complete engine/transmission package on www.carparts.com and found it at Gundy's up in Bellingham. Mine came from a 328i and there's really nothing else in the car that would have helped. I don't even think I used that throttle pedal. The OBD plug uses the wrong format and the MSV-80 doesn't work as well as the MSV-70. Even the fuel relay electronics (forget the code for it...) is the wrong format and you need a Can11h one out of a Z4.

After you re-read everything come by and see/drive my car and we can answer the rest of your questions.

[ralle30]

Let's say I get a plan together for dealing with the engine mount and oil pan - what is the best / simplest path forward for obtaining an engine, harness and transmission?

Donor car? Piecemeal?
If a donor car - is any particular body more/less desirable, or just whatever you can find the best deal on?

Out here in the Seattle area, is craigslist your best option? Pick-n-pull has been slim pickin's for awhile on E30 parts, but I've never really looked for more current models.
Other salvage yards?

I need to re-read the thread carefully to make a shopping list, but for the big important bits it seems:
- N52B30
- ideally a harness from both Z4 and X3 ? (I really liked the clean install on hoveringuy's car)
- 6-speed .. the shorter one seems to be a direct fit for my G260 mounts? (and mating to the G260 seems to be probably more work than it's worth?)
- drive shafts, or have one made
- DME ... an MSV70 ... best to source from ?? ( nando any words of advice on this? - seems you're the expert!)

From the above, it seems like a donor doesn't really add a lot, vs sourcing an engine and transmission (unless the donor were an X3 or Z4...) separately?

I'm planning to delete A/C and power steering (using a manual Z4 rack), so those accessories aren't really of use...

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I'll create a build thread once this kicks off ... I've been a long-time lurker and really didn't have much to contribute back. Helping to spread the word of the N52 swap seems like a way to give back :)

[ralle30]

I think I'm about to jump down the rabbit hole ...

We run our E30 in the local rallycross events (NW Rally Association - Northwest Rally Association (nwrallyassociation.com)) and it's been a blast - right up to where the M20 overheated and we found out the block is cracked :(

Been waffling about deciding on the right engine to put in (M20 = easy, but no more power, M50/M52 mostly easy, not much more power unless we go down cams + exhaust + tune route, S5x - $$$, etc) and then stumbled across this thread.

The N52 Seems like it ticks ALL the boxes - lighter weight, more power, N/A for smooth power delivery (turbo + loose surface + RWD = big grins and slow times).

Except I'm a little apprehensive on the fab end of the swap ...

On my own there's no way I could fab up the engine arms and oil pan - but I do have local access to guys who could weld them up nice for me if I handed over the "you weld it" bits.
Aaaand it looks like I'm reasonably close to hoveringuy and hubcapboy (I'm on Vashon - near Seattle) ... so maybe I could be one of those last guinea pigs to try it out on? The rx car is a great test mule - lots of vertical loads as we bash around the course, and if something breaks it's under controlled conditions (with a trailer to get 'er home).

I really like the shallower pan - was extremely distraught at the thought of a lower e34 pan and losing ground clearance (beefy skid plate, but I'd probably have to lower it a bit to clear the new, lower pan.)

Of course I'm crazy, and like all race-car projects I'm now on a schedule to have a car ready by the first event in mid-December!

hoveringuy, it looks like my son missed catching you at The Ridge by a day - he went for ride-alongs with a buddy in his M3 and managed to ride in a LOT of fun cars. He would have zero'd in on your E30 from a mile out - he did talk to a guy with a Pro3 (in "gulf livery") for a bit about swap ideas...

[Nowayman]

It’s simply to make the swap easier for people who would rather just bolt it all up. Im also doing an n52 swap in both my z3 and another e30 using the 6 speed. But having this flywheel option allows the n52 to just match up to a lot of cars without any drivetrain changes, driveshaft swapping etc.

Also I’ve been enjoying watching your build btw. Loving those track vids!


*s54 pan- I’m not sure if it’ll fit without modification, but I do have a pan on the way to test that. I’m unable to change any of the subframe geometry and keep everything where I have it. Worst case though, it needs modified, but a lot less than it would with anything else.

[hoveringuy]

Nowayman Out of curiosity, why are you keeping the G260? Is it to keep the stock driveline?
I had no issues with my 260 behind the M54, except that the stock clutch wouldn't hold the torque
I have the GS-17 6 speed now with the N52 and don't know if I could go back...

[Nowayman]

The subframe kits will be available for purchase when the ThirtyFab site goes live in January. You’re welcome to check out the IG account if you’re interested… @thirty_fab
I will be launching a discounted pre-order sometime before opening everything up. I’ll be releasing a lot more info in the coming weeks. Not trying to junk up a thread with any of that stuff but anyone is welcome to DM me if they have questions.👍

[Caperix]

Pictures would be great, is this a one off for your self or something you plan on offering for sale? Have you done any test fits with the s54 oil pan, I think all the other rear sump cross members require modification to the s54 pan to fit.

[Nowayman]

Sure thing! I’m out of town until Tuesday but I’ll definitely get some photos from underneath 👍

[hubcapboy]

Well look what it took to bring me back here :)

This is incredible work. I don't want to ask you to reveal too much, but it looks like your car is at the same height as mine. Can you show us how everything fits together from below?

[wazzu70]

Thanks for sharing the printed pieces. Its always cool to see!

If you can make a subframe out of billet (or sheet/tube) for a reasonable cost that fits an unmodified sump you will be a hero.

[Nowayman]

It’s just a creality cr10s. I print them in four pieces and assemble. The attic to my garage is just bursting with printed subframe prototypes haha. There’s at least 15 of them up there. As far as the CABs I have them on my other e30 and my z3 and they really aren’t too bad. Could easily run the regular lollipops and cut the header back further before doing the v-bands and make room, I expected to have to do this either way, but they ended up fitting with these.

Also had a couple 4140 g260/zf flywheels made, they use the n52 starter, e30 clutch.


I had also printed and mounted about 8 of these before I was happy 😂. There are no teeth on the one up there, my manufacturer can do just about anything, they mostly do work for the oil and gas industry, but they don’t cut teeth. I’m picking them up from the gear place later this week.

[nando]

That's pretty cool. Wow, 3D printed subframe? Even as a prototype, that's an accomplishment to print something that large. I'm going to guess here you're using a machine at work or something, lol. Even a really nice home printer won't go that big! I've worked a bit on an adapter for the S54 throttles, but I'll have to make it in several pieces, and I also have to print it at a 45 degree angle on my bed to make the biggest assembly possible.

Header fitment looks fine but the deal breaker for me are those THR clone brackets. I wouldn't want to run those on a street car. but it probably wouldn't take much modification to make them work with the stock brackets, so definitely helpful to see how they fit!