E34 525ix info

[The Dark Side of Will]

There are some mods needed but its totally doable :) Some mod to the rear wishbone mount as seen on the pics etc.

That's what I meant... the *crossmember* bolts in, but you still have to mod the lollipops or lollipop mounting locations to get them right.

Yeah, but i dont think the RWD rack will work on an AWD subframe, and it would likely have the same diff clearance issues.

Yep, but all of the interchanges are things to put in the memory bank.

[Nisse Järnet]

E46 RWD crossmember bolts into E30 RWD? wild.

There are some mods needed but its totally doable :) Some mod to the rear wishbone mount as seen on the pics etc.

Yeah, but i dont think the RWD rack will work on an AWD subframe, and it would likely have the same diff clearance issues.

Yeah your probably right, hopefully we could get a E46xi to work on ours with tie rods etc since the rwd swap seems to work :)

Heres a friend doing a E36 awd compact build with complete E46xi front and M5 E39 rear, not finished but pics might give some ideas?

http://server.pure-pf.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=405858

The engine seems to sit further back on the E46 so more space for the diff?

[nando]

Been checking around a bit and it seems that the E46 rwd rack fits the E30 rwd pretty much as fine as the E36 one, so it should work with tie rods etc.

Or you can swap the whole E46 front end like this :D (rwd though)
http://server.pure-pf.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=405858

Yeah, but i dont think the RWD rack will work on an AWD subframe, and it would likely have the same diff clearance issues.

[The Dark Side of Will]

E46 RWD crossmember bolts into E30 RWD? wild.

[Nisse Järnet]

Yes, certain models came with much faster ratios, i dont remember specifics, but a definite upgrade.

I stopped researching it because of issues with tie rods, but im thinking the trade off will be worth it.



Oh i see now yeah, maybe - but it will definitely not clear the E46 rack like that.

Been checking around a bit and it seems that the E46 rwd rack fits the E30 rwd pretty much as fine as the E36 one, so it should work with tie rods etc.

Or you can swap the whole E46 front end like this :D (rwd though)

http://server.pure-pf.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=405858

[nando]

Ah ok no problem :) Are you running M20?

Yeah they should be, most people swap the E36 racks in RWD E30is, almost bolt on. I will try to find it and test later!

Yeah the E34 route seems the easiest way out, but i would really like the 3.07 gearing so if the E34 setup works great im sure i will work on a upgrade :)

Interesting with the E46 rack, im sure it has better steering ratio?

Yes, certain models came with much faster ratios, i dont remember specifics, but a definite upgrade.

I stopped researching it because of issues with tie rods, but im thinking the trade off will be worth it.

There are two holes in the tower, right? One for the stud and one for an alignment pin?
Move the mount "down" the tower and drill one new hole... might put things narrow enough to work with E34 mount arms.

Oh i see now yeah, maybe - but it will definitely not clear the E46 rack like that.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I'm not sure I understand? the rubber mounts are centered, not offset?

There are two holes in the tower, right? One for the stud and one for an alignment pin?
Move the mount "down" the tower and drill one new hole... might put things narrow enough to work with E34 mount arms.

[Nisse Järnet]

neither. :D

unfortunately, the person who shared with me the information on what trans to use asked me to keep it to myself, or I'd just say it. :(



it's probably worth a try. But I have the feeling that the E30 ix and E36 racks are similar in width, which is why it hits the differential.

looking at the E53 pan/diff - there are some definite advantages. lots more ratios (including 3.73 and 3.64 would would work better with the getrag), oil level sensor mount included (E34 ix has no level sensor that I can tell), of course you can buy them in the states, and there's lots more of them out there (not relying on a supply of rare, hard to find parts like with the E34).

drawbacks are the CV shafts don't mate up quite as well (E34 are nearly bolt on), and the front driveshaft would have to be custom built (u-joints etc).

I think since I already have all the E34 parts I'll continue down that path and investigate the E46 rack swap some more..

Ah ok no problem :) Are you running M20?

Yeah they should be, most people swap the E36 racks in RWD E30is, almost bolt on. I will try to find it and test later!

Yeah the E34 route seems the easiest way out, but i would really like the 3.07 gearing so if the E34 setup works great im sure i will work on a upgrade :)

Interesting with the E46 rack, im sure it has better steering ratio?

[nando]

Yeah converted my measures and it said 11. something so i thought thats close enough :)

A M30 260 or a M20?

neither. :D

unfortunately, the person who shared with me the information on what trans to use asked me to keep it to myself, or I'd just say it. :(

This is interesting posts/photos, thanks alot!!
I thought the E34 would fit no problem but i was wrong :P

I have a RWD E36 rack somewhere i could test later on, i think i also have to find a E53 pan to test fit the E53 diff.

it's probably worth a try. But I have the feeling that the E30 ix and E36 racks are similar in width, which is why it hits the differential.

looking at the E53 pan/diff - there are some definite advantages. lots more ratios (including 3.73 and 3.64 would would work better with the getrag), oil level sensor mount included (E34 ix has no level sensor that I can tell), of course you can buy them in the states, and there's lots more of them out there (not relying on a supply of rare, hard to find parts like with the E34).

drawbacks are the CV shafts don't mate up quite as well (E34 are nearly bolt on), and the front driveshaft would have to be custom built (u-joints etc).

I think since I already have all the E34 parts I'll continue down that path and investigate the E46 rack swap some more..

[Nisse Järnet]

This is interesting posts/photos, thanks alot!!
I thought the E34 would fit no problem but i was wrong :P

I have a RWD E36 rack somewhere i could test later on, i think i also have to find a E53 pan to test fit the E53 diff.

[Nisse Järnet]

yeah, possibly the E53 pan could be an alternative if you can work out the rack issues. the E34 pan clears the rack no problem. although I haven't tested with the diff mounted it doesn't look like it obviously hits.

now that I know where the axle centerline is supposed to be, I'll remove the snubber thing and see how the mount arms align. they're going to be too far forward for sure. they're also too narrow..

I would like to figure out a way to keep a snubber of some sort. I think it's important given the extra stress the ix mounts see. also, there are built-in rubber bumper things on the ix engine mounts for side to side movement. I never realized what they were until recently, pretty clever. unfortunately, they're NLA. :(

I believe the E39 6cyl mount arms will be much too far back. maybe I can find one to test fit, I could be wrong.

the lynch pin in my plan is the engine/trans must be in the same position as the original M20, or it won't work. I think it can be done using 100% stock parts (aside from engine mount arms).



Cool. I measured with a yardstick I had laying around, it might not be exactly 11 3/8" but it's close. and if you take the 5/8" change over a ~24" long shaft, the angle change is pretty small.

as far as the trans, I'll be using a Getrag 260. part of it should be arriving from Germany sometime early next year, the other half I have to source stateside somewhere. the plan right now is to send it to be built by geardrive.

Yeah converted my measures and it said 11. something so i thought thats close enough :)

A M30 260 or a M20?

[nando]

I thought about that too but I don't think you want to put funky angles into the tie rods if you can avoid it. I believe the E46 rack can be installed on the same centerline as the stock rack, but the subframe needs to be modified somehow for it to bolt to it.

[flyboyx]

Did one more mock up - it looks like with the e46 rack, i can move the engine forward about 3/4" closer to the ideal spot. The subframe will need work, as will the mount arms.

I dont think the stock ix rack has any hope of fitting unless you are willing to move the firewall.. i'm not.

The other potential answer is maybe the E53 pan is simply a better choice, with the E46 xi rack it shouldnthit the diff, and it should be possible to move the engine all the way forward.

nice work chris.

not messing with the firewall would be so much better if possible. on a stock e30ix, the front axles pass really close to the mounting tabs on the back of the subframe. moving the engine forward could cause an interference there too.

what about simply moving the subrame forward an inch or so? (steering geometry issues?

[nando]

Did one more mock up - it looks like with the e46 rack, i can move the engine forward about 3/4" closer to the ideal spot. The subframe will need work, as will the mount arms.

I dont think the stock ix rack has any hope of fitting unless you are willing to move the firewall.. i'm not.

The other potential answer is maybe the E53 pan is simply a better choice, with the E46 xi rack it shouldnt hit the diff, and it should be possible to move the engine all the way forward.

[nando]

I'm not sure I understand? the rubber mounts are centered, not offset?

ok, got that pic you asked for. yes, if you rotate the ix steering rack up, it will hit the E34 mount arm. but the E34 mount arm is too far inward and too far forward anyway.



Going back to the E46 rack - I'm starting to think it really is the way to go here. I know there are some geometry drawbacks, but it almost fits as-is without any crazy angles. I'd have to make a clearance hole in the subframe for one banjo fitting, and the one on the back side of the rack would have to be re-routed over the top instead of the bottom, but I think those are solvable problems. a simple 3/8" thick steel plate that you mount the rack to, then bolt that to the subframe, should work.

with the E30 rack all the way up against the E34 diff, there's more than 2" of clearance between the subframe and the sump (the snubber is about 2" long, and the sump doesn't touch it).

snubber:


E30 rack fitment (not good):






E46 rack fitment (not perfect but better)




with the E46 rack positioned as best as I can without a mounting plate, I can get it much closer. it's harder to measure but perhaps it's just over 1". maybe that could be lived with.. I'd have to check firewall clearance.

the E46 rack does get close to the stock engine mount but it really looks to me like the engine mount arm/platform will have to be modified/custom anyway.