24V AWD Swap Knowledge Base

[AndrewBird]

Exactly. I didn't think about the centering pin as I've never had one apart in front of me before, only seen pictures. You would use shorter bolts though, since they don't need to stick past for a nut, so you might having enough room to slide them out like you said.

[nando]

Yeah, they'd be the same bolts you use to mount the flex disc to the diff flange.

#16


edit: I measured the flange thickness on the front DS and it's 9mm. I think I can get a helicoil in a 10mm size. I think I need to talk to somebody and see the best way to install one - do I need the locking version? etc.

the bolt head is about 7mm deep which is more than the 1/4" I need, but I might still need to do some slight clearancing of that one oil pan bolt.

[stonea]

I've been toying around the idea of putting my M52TU in my 88 ix, and I think I wanna try and stick with the stock drivetrain, minus the engine. First off I apologize if I sound "noobish" I'm still looking into all of this.

Oil Pan:
I was leaning towards the fraken pan method. My roommate is a fairly skilled welder and may be up to the task. Also I read in a thread somewhere and someone said to weld the pan while bolted to a spare block to prevent "warping". Also I'm sure I'll need to work some magic with the oil pick up too.

Motor Mounts:
Now from my understanding you can use stock M20 ix motor mounts, but you need to tap the holes on the block for the larger bolts. Also I think you need to modify the driver side mount. but I'm not sure about that.

Brake Booster:
I was just thinking about doing the brake booster relocation like they do on V8's. Is there anything preventing me from doing this?

Transmission:
Now for this I was going to bolt up the original Getrag 260 to the M52TU. I know the transmission is going to be tilted at a 10 degree angle, and I was thinking I would cut the bell housing and tilt it to fix this, but then I thought about making an adapter plate that goes between the transmission and the Transfer Case. This would allow the Transmission to be tilted while still allowing the TC to be in its original orientation.

Transmission Brace:
I'm guessing I can use any other braces used for other 24v swap for the Getrag 260.

Drive Shaft:
If I do the adapter I'm sure I'll have to lengthen the front and shorten the rear driveshaft. I'm already on planning on putting the longer spline upgrade that someone sells on here so I'm already on planning having the front drive shaft chopped and re wedled.

Also I'm kind of curious about what problems the adapter between the Transmission and TC adapter would cause. I'm sure I would need some type of spacer, but I'm not sure what to do there.

Thanks in advance for all your help. I've read this thread a couple of times and keep up with all of the other ix swap threads too, but it seems either everyone has the engine tilted at a 10 degree angle, or they are looking at the e34 drivetrain. I just wanted to throw my idea out there and see what you guys thought. Also please bring up any problems you see in my theory.

-Stone

[nando]

I've been toying around the idea of putting my M52TU in my 88 ix, and I think I wanna try and stick with the stock drivetrain, minus the engine. First off I apologize if I sound "noobish" I'm still looking into all of this.

Oil Pan:
I was leaning towards the fraken pan method. My roommate is a fairly skilled welder and may be up to the task. Also I read in a thread somewhere and someone said to weld the pan while bolted to a spare block to prevent "warping". Also I'm sure I'll need to work some magic with the oil pick up too.

Motor Mounts:
Now from my understanding you can use stock M20 ix motor mounts, but you need to tap the holes on the block for the larger bolts. Also I think you need to modify the driver side mount. but I'm not sure about that.

You drill out the holes in the mounts larger. You don't do anything to the block.

Brake Booster:
I was just thinking about doing the brake booster relocation like they do on V8's. Is there anything preventing me from doing this?

Nothing technically wrong, but IMO these solutions are a mess and you will have a tough time fitting everything in the engine bay. I honestly think a manual brake setup would be a better choice (a proper set up one, not just deleting the booster and using a stock MC).

Transmission:
Now for this I was going to bolt up the original Getrag 260 to the M52TU. I know the transmission is going to be tilted at a 10 degree angle, and I was thinking I would cut the bell housing and tilt it to fix this, but then I thought about making an adapter plate that goes between the transmission and the Transfer Case. This would allow the Transmission to be tilted while still allowing the TC to be in its original orientation.

I don't think you understand how the drivetrain is oriented.

If you use the ix engine mounts, the engine will be tilted up 10 degrees, you can't change that. Also, if you use the ix oil pan, you must use the ix mounts and transmission, because you can't just tilt the motor - the CV shafts wouldn't work.

You don't need to do anything to the transmission. in fact, you can't. that will screw up all sorts of things - the shifter, the front driveshaft, the transfer case mounts. It all goes together - if you use stock ix parts, the motor has to be tilted 10 degrees more vertical.

Transmission Brace:
I'm guessing I can use any other braces used for other 24v swap for the Getrag 260.

If you use the ix drivetrain you use the ix trans brace. you can't bolt a RWD trans brace to an ix, there's nowhere on the body to mount it to.

Drive Shaft:
If I do the adapter I'm sure I'll have to lengthen the front and shorten the rear driveshaft. I'm already on planning on putting the longer spline upgrade that someone sells on here so I'm already on planning having the front drive shaft chopped and re wedled.

Since an adapter isn't feasible, there's no reason to mess with the rear driveshaft. the rear driveshaft is telescoping anyway, there's no reason to alter its length.

Also I'm kind of curious about what problems the adapter between the Transmission and TC adapter would cause. I'm sure I would need some type of spacer, but I'm not sure what to do there.

If you try to rotate the stock ix getrag basically nothing else from the E30 ix will work. The pictures of the ix getrag I posted above may be misleading you - this was built from a different transmission, it doesn't have the same bellhousing pattern. It wouldn't work with any of the E30 ix drivetrain parts anyway, it's meant for a 24v motor.

Thanks in advance for all your help. I've read this thread a couple of times and keep up with all of the other ix swap threads too, but it seems either everyone has the engine tilted at a 10 degree angle, or they are looking at the e34 drivetrain. I just wanted to throw my idea out there and see what you guys thought. Also please bring up any problems you see in my theory.

-Stone

There's a reason for that. You can't use the stock E30 ix drivetrain and not have the engine tilted 10 degrees. It has to be for any of the parts to work together. There's never going to be an easy solution to this, everything will have a compromise of some sort and it will require custom fab work of some sort.

I still favor the E34 ix solution, although it's not cheap and it hasn't been 100% solved yet (unless you want to cut your firewall). What you are talking about is the frankenpan method and it's definitely the easiest/cheapest. You just get stuck with the engine tilt and the weaker front diff. Even the E34 parts will require significant oil pan mods to keep the body and front suspension stock.

[stonea]

I always thought the engine tilt was related to the blot patter on the transmission, not the motor mounts. Also I just figured the transmission brace was the same between the two cars. So basically I'm stuck with the 10 degree tilt. Also I'm not to worried about the extra power because it's only the M52TUB25 not the b28. And I know "why would you go through all that trouble for just the 2.5?" I have my reasons although none of them are logical.

[nando]

it really will be a complete waste of time. I'm just being honest - all that effort, you'd be better of building a better M20.

but yeah, you're stuck with the 10 degree tilt if you use the E30 ix drivetrain. it does work though.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I always thought the engine tilt was related to the blot patter on the transmission, not the motor mounts. Also I just figured the transmission brace was the same between the two cars. So basically I'm stuck with the 10 degree tilt. Also I'm not to worried about the extra power because it's only the M52TUB25 not the b28. And I know "why would you go through all that trouble for just the 2.5?" I have my reasons although none of them are logical.

If you go frankenpan, you have to mount the engine at the M20 angle (I should add that to the first post). That means you must use the M20 mount arms, which mounts the 24V engine at the M20 angle. Once you do that, the iX transmission bolts up and you use the stock iX T-case support crossmember.

That reduces space available for the brake booster, for example.

It would be sweet to do that with an M54B30... enough power to make the swap worthwhile and chop a few dozen pounds off the front of the car.

[stonea]

Oh, okay. I was unaware that the M20 in the ix was at a different angle. I'm guessing this is also the reason for the ix having a different brake booster? I love the M54b25 in my Z3, but I prefer the ix's handling. Thats why I wanted to do this swap. The M52TU I currently have is out of my old Z3 before it got totaled and the engine only had 27,000 miles on it too.

[nando]

the M20 is the same angle in the ix as the regular E30.

[stonea]

Ok, well now I'm confused. I'm just going to re-read all of the threads I have booked ark instead if you guys having to explain everything. But does anyone know why the ix brake booster is different?

[nando]

it's a double diaphragm I think. don't know the reason, I assume it's engineering not packaging. Although I believe the ix M20 is closer to the firewall than the RWD cars.

[Nisse Järnet]

The ix booster sits further away from the firewall to clear the steering shaft which mounts different compared to a rwd E30.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Ok, well now I'm confused. I'm just going to re-read all of the threads I have booked ark instead if you guys having to explain everything. But does anyone know why the ix brake booster is different?

ALL M20's sit at the M20 angle (don't recall exactly what the angle is).
ALL M50's lean 10 degrees further over than M20's.
The blocks are externally very similar, including the transmission bellhousing pattern. This means that you can bolt up a bunch of M20 parts to an M50 and basically treat it like an M20.
That's what a frankenpan swap does.

[325ixa]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=675777819136473&set=a.556557024391887.1073741827.407329972647927&type=1&theater

[Nisse Järnet]

Cool! Looks like a 525ix TC?