The Detailed E30 R-134a Conversion Thread/DIY

[cory58]

Is FrostyCool R12a the same thing as or similar to HC-12a? The FrostyCool web site says it's flammable but doesn't have an MSDS or ingredient list.

[chouchoo]

This. I made zero changes to my hardware. Verified system held vacuum and charged with FrostyCool R12a that I got on eBay (I think it's a way better deal to buy direct from their website even though shipping is ~$19 though so I'd probably avoid the eBay seller). I was getting 41*F at the center vents on idle (fan on 2, recirc ON) and a consistent 33*F at cruise (at one point I saw 32.x*F). Ambient temp was ~70*F and very high humidity; waiting for the heat to come back to do some more testing but I expect some pretty good performance out of the system.

Per the FrostyCool website, I used 11oz of their R12a refrigerant to charge the E30 system that calls for 2.1lbs (+/- .05) of R12. For equipment, I used some manifold gauges, R134a conversion fittings and a two-stage vacuum pump - all off Amazon. I left my existing dual pressure switch setup in place as well as the stock expansion valve. I'm still playing with things so I'll report back with more concrete data on pressures and things like that. I thought I may have overcharged the system so I vented some refrigerant out and now I believe it's under-charged again as my idle vent temps went up to 52*F and cruise vent is 37*F. All of this is on factory R12 parts namely the condenser (fin/tube not parallel flow).

I had another E30 325iX converted to R134a about 10 years ago and that car performed admirably; however, I really think sticking with the R12 system (tube and fin condenser), replacing the dryer and all the o-rings is the correct solution for these cars. Based on my research, I'm just not concerned about running a hydrocarbon-based refrigerant either (a common argument against R12a). It is unfortunate that the EPA hasn't approved this as a replacement for R12 systems as it is better for the environment than even R134a (which is no longer in favor anyway as everyone is switching to R1234yf or whatever it is).

Would you mind linking the Amazon purchases for the rest of us?

[jeffnhiscars]

Jeff is probably right, but it would be just my luck to end up with a hose that's been sitting on a shelf since 1988.

The final bits of my AC that I replaced were the 2 hoses that go from the firewall to the evaporator (behind the glove box). They were NOS off of eBay from a seller in Israel. One was NLA and the other was dealer only, hence stupid expensive. The day they arrived I sent them to a hose shop who replaced the decades old new r12 hoses with barrier hose. $75 later it was done.

im guessing but I doubt you'll find NOS anywhere on the planet. Just sayin' :)

[AmosCake]

RealOEM shows part 1040 superseding the old R12 hose part number, which means 1040 will fit your car. Different situation for part 1051. RealOEM does not show a replacement for the R12 hose (part 4234) and that hose is specific to the M42, so you can't count on 1051 fitting your car. Unless someone with an M42 chimes in here, I would recommend going to your local dealer and asking the question at the parts counter. Up to you whether you buy the hose from them after they help you out (I would).

Yeah i searched that part up and its for verts and sedans but since its R134a compatible i checked to see if it would fit and according to ECS tuning it is compatible

[cory58]

Any replacement hose you buy new will be r134 compatible

Jeff is probably right, but it would be just my luck to end up with a hose that's been sitting on a shelf since 1988.

[cory58]

I have a 91 318is with M42. Any specific lines i would have to make R134a compatible? On realoem, hose 5 and 8 say R12 while the others say R12/R134a. So im assuming 5 and 8 must not be R134a compatible? For 5 im thinking 64538391040 and for 8 64538391051 as replacements but not 100% sure.

RealOEM shows part 1040 superseding the old R12 hose part number, which means 1040 will fit your car. Different situation for part 1051. RealOEM does not show a replacement for the R12 hose (part 4234) and that hose is specific to the M42, so you can't count on 1051 fitting your car. Unless someone with an M42 chimes in here, I would recommend going to your local dealer and asking the question at the parts counter. Up to you whether you buy the hose from them after they help you out (I would).

[jeffnhiscars]

Any replacement hose you buy new will be r134 compatible

[AmosCake]

I have a 91 318is with M42. Any specific lines i would have to make R134a compatible? On realoem, hose 5 and 8 say R12 while the others say R12/R134a. So im assuming 5 and 8 must not be R134a compatible? For 5 im thinking 64538391040 and for 8 64538391051 as replacements but not 100% sure.

[Westija]

Cars with Oil Cooler:

My car has an Oil Cooler in front of the Condenser (1989 325i Convertible Auto) and I am half way through the Condenser replacement, but seems that the old Condenser will not come out without removing that Oil Cooler first. Has anyone with an Oil Cooler car successfully remove the Condenser with the Oil Cooler in place?
The other option I see is to remove the Radiator, but I have just done a Cooling System overhaul and would hate to drain the Radiator and remove it and all that goes with that.


Resolved: I removed the Cooler Lines Bracket then removed the Bolts that hold the Cooler in place and that provided a lot of room to maneuver the Condenser out. I clearly over-reacted.

Thanks

[nick.cbr]

I had a bit of a setback. I couldn't for the life of me get the low-side pressure to come up at all. Would stay around 5-8psi - high side was ~150psi. The vent temp was exceptionally cold but after 30-40 minutes of driving, the vent temps would start to increase to low-mid 50's (F). I'm pretty sure the evaporator core was freezing up (also noticed fan performance wasn't quite as good and sounded a bit different. Without being able to see in there, I'm just guessing. The thought is the thermal expansion valve (TXV) is hung up and not metering flow well enough which is causing very low temps but eventually ending in an ice-over condition. At this point I've ordered new hoses, TXV, o-rings, dryer, low switch, high switch and a new tube/fin condenser to get to a point where I know what I have. I'm also poking around trying to sort out the parts necessary to run through the compressor as well. There is a guy over on mye28.com that rebuilds them but I'd prefer to try it myself if I can.

[e30davie]

I think people are making more of a deal out of the "Conversion" than it requires. it all comes down to if you need a new compressor or not. if the old compressor works fine then theres no issue with just staying with r12 or the modern equivalent. if you need a new compressor then you might as well go for an R134a one. And if you are going to the effort of changing the compressor you really should get a new dryer (cheap), and you might as well get a new TX valve while you have no gas in it (also quite cheap). And then all new o'rings are worth nothing and it wasnt that big of a deal to swap them all out. Pressure switches don't cost much at all to get a new one. And as mentioned i just used the original R12 condenser and evaporator. the car is so small that the loss of efficiency i don't think matters so much. of course if you need a new condenser or evaporator then get an r134a one.

You USA guys seem to be able to buy the refrigerant very easy, here in Australia you cant even buy gas without a refrigeration license, so it costs $200 minimum to get gas put in, so i made sure to get it all new so as not to need more gas down the track if something leaks etc.

[nick.cbr]

I don't know why anyone struggles with converting to R134a, just run R12a.

This. I made zero changes to my hardware. Verified system held vacuum and charged with FrostyCool R12a that I got on eBay (I think it's a way better deal to buy direct from their website even though shipping is ~$19 though so I'd probably avoid the eBay seller). I was getting 41*F at the center vents on idle (fan on 2, recirc ON) and a consistent 33*F at cruise (at one point I saw 32.x*F). Ambient temp was ~70*F and very high humidity; waiting for the heat to come back to do some more testing but I expect some pretty good performance out of the system.

Per the FrostyCool website, I used 11oz of their R12a refrigerant to charge the E30 system that calls for 2.1lbs (+/- .05) of R12. For equipment, I used some manifold gauges, R134a conversion fittings and a two-stage vacuum pump - all off Amazon. I left my existing dual pressure switch setup in place as well as the stock expansion valve. I'm still playing with things so I'll report back with more concrete data on pressures and things like that. I thought I may have overcharged the system so I vented some refrigerant out and now I believe it's under-charged again as my idle vent temps went up to 52*F and cruise vent is 37*F. All of this is on factory R12 parts namely the condenser (fin/tube not parallel flow).

I had another E30 325iX converted to R134a about 10 years ago and that car performed admirably; however, I really think sticking with the R12 system (tube and fin condenser), replacing the dryer and all the o-rings is the correct solution for these cars. Based on my research, I'm just not concerned about running a hydrocarbon-based refrigerant either (a common argument against R12a). It is unfortunate that the EPA hasn't approved this as a replacement for R12 systems as it is better for the environment than even R134a (which is no longer in favor anyway as everyone is switching to R1234yf or whatever it is).

[808ETA]

Since I had was replacing everything with new parts I decided to sent my A/C compressor out to be rebuild. It was working fine however I didn't want to have a weak link in the system and have to go in there again. Mike from Discount A/C was very informative and rebuilt it in 1 day. Shipping wasn't bad either as it fit in a USPS medium flat rate box. Total cost was $172 including shipping, insurance and pulley bearing replacement. They also have good prices on new and rebuilt A/C

http://www.discountautoac-compressor...or-C20804.aspx

[e30davie]

I don't have any oil cooler. I don't think any of the M20b23 had an engine oil cooler. Mine was originally auto, dunno if the manual one did.

[Tzantushka]

Thought some of you might be interested in the compressor that i put on my m20b23.

Nice!
You have the stock oil cooler I assume?