Advice on building an M20 for High Horsepower

[Purest'sHateMe]

Skip the first paragraph if you do not care for the backstory.

Okay, so I'm going to start this off by stating that I know 400-500hp is ALOT of power for an E30. these are my goals though, budget isn't really an issue. I sold my 2017 mustang gt (spent over 20k modding it) in order to build the e30 of my dreams (girlfriend said I couldn't have two project cars... which is fair) and it had around 560whp, I know the E30 is a lot lighter but that's exactly why I want 400-500hp, I want this to be the fastest car ill ever build, as I'm sure this is going to be my last build ill ever do since I'm beginning to settle down and really gear up for my future. the turbo kit I'm looking at is the KAMOTORS HIGH HP KIT. I have already worked through my options for the AWD system and did my research on how to make it able to handle the power. the thing I cant find however is building the M20 for High Horsepower. I'm new to doing any internal work at all on any engine, the most I've done was intake manifolds, exhausts, injectors, spark plugs, headers, that sort of stuff. so the more information and parts ill need the better. I thought about ordering a pre-built M20 online but thought it would be a lot cheaper and more fun to do this all myself. One more thing i forgot to state that could be important is that this car will be my weekend cruiser/ track car about 3-6 times a year(I have to travel 10 hours for the nearest track).

If you skipped: GOAL HP: 400-500. MODEL: M20B25(88 325ix). BOOST RANGE:17-23PSI. WANTS: A rundown on parts I should get in order to build the engine STRONG and any tips for doing it myself.

the reason I'm trying to get 400-500hp out of the M20 rather than engine swapping is that I'd LIKE to keep the AWD system of the IX. The engine has around 200,000kms on it, the timing belt, intake gaskets, water pump, and oil pump have all been done recently. If I have to do them again or upgrade I don't mind, just be straight with me exactly what ill need to make this work properly. injectors, upgraded oil pump gears, better cooling system, don't be shy tell me exactly what I should be doing. I look forward to all the advice I receive. Have a wonderful day.

[Reichart12]

Wouldn't purest mean high quality without contamination and purist mean a person who is stuck on traditionalism?

Also just having s would be plural and 's would be possessive.

So you're hated by the possession of something without contamination... interesting.

Anywayssss, no one is going to spoon feed you information. Clearly you're stuck on having a number hp goal regardless of feel or drivability. With all the different subcategories here you should be able to formulate some ideas of your own. It would be a lot more receptive if you come and say something more along the lines of "here's my turbo kit, this is the internals I want to go with, and some standalone ecu, blah blah blah I actually researched this stuff, how do you all think this will pan out?"

[nando]

M20s can definitely make 500hp, but I don't think you're going to get there with a pre-built kit. You could go with a huge turbo but you'll just have a bunch of lag and an unusable power band. That's why people are telling you that realistically, 300-400hp is more than enough (and it's also easier to attain and more driveable).

An E30 is what, 1500lbs lighter than a modern Mustang? I've ridden in one 350hp turbo E30 and it was stupidly, ridiculously fast. Modern cars are fat heavy pigs. If you want to go faster than that, just buy a Tesla..

It's really too bad E30tech died and took all the turbo build info with it, it would have been easy to point you to a thread there and you could teach yourself to fish.

For strength the M20 is not special and is pretty simple to build. Stock BMW cranks are strong and hold up to abuse. You can get custom rods and pistons for a turbo M20 build from nearly anywhere. Many people at that power level were running ARP bolts and stock gaskets with an O-ringed block. you could also get multi layer steel gaskets (not sure if those are still available).

For the most part the rest of the engine can be stock - except for the computer, but that's a whole different can of worms...

I didn't know Kamotors was still around. Good for him!

[digger]

As mentioned do some research and come up with a plan that people can review and critique. Its too open ended otherwise

[McGyver]

As stated above, you're going to need to do a ton of research to come up with a recipe for your specific goals. Also as stated, a kit with a huge turbo may hit your dyno goal, but its all going to be at the top end with a ton of lag and ultimately unusable.

I get your desire to keep the ix system, but will it even handle that much power? I assume you'll only be able to do a rolling launch. Keep that in mind.

With that said, if you want to make that kind of power, you're going to need to design and build a system that works together. Start with a stroker block in the 3.0L to 3.1L range (forged internals with custom pistons), work the head so it'll flow (oversized valves, cam, springs, rockers, port match, etc), figure out an intake manifold that'll flow, build/buy a quality turbo manifold, choose turbo components (turbo, wastegate, bov, piping, boost controller, intercooler) suited to your engine specs, choose a fuel type (high octane or e85) and get the required fuel system components (pump, injectors, plumbing), choose an engine management system (MS2, MS3, Haltec, Link, etc). Sink that money and put it all together and hope that you get lucky that everything works correctly the first time.

For reference, read these two threads in their entirety, then reevaluate your goals. Although what you're doing isn't impossible, it is expensive and pushing the limits of what's been done on a street car.

https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/forum/e30-technical-forums/engine-drivetrain/m20/338692-das-beast-my-e30-track-street-build

https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/forum/e30-technical-forums/engine-drivetrain/m20/9891827-jt-s-m20-build-thread

[Purest'sHateMe]

As stated above, you're going to need to do a ton of research to come up with a recipe for your specific goals. Also as stated, a kit with a huge turbo may hit your dyno goal, but its all going to be at the top end with a ton of lag and ultimately unusable.

I get your desire to keep the ix system, but will it even handle that much power? I assume you'll only be able to do a rolling launch. Keep that in mind.

With that said, if you want to make that kind of power, you're going to need to design and build a system that works together. Start with a stroker block in the 3.0L to 3.1L range (forged internals with custom pistons), work the head so it'll flow (oversized valves, cam, springs, rockers, port match, etc), figure out an intake manifold that'll flow, build/buy a quality turbo manifold, choose turbo components (turbo, wastegate, bov, piping, boost controller, intercooler) suited to your engine specs, choose a fuel type (high octane or e85) and get the required fuel system components (pump, injectors, plumbing), choose an engine management system (MS2, MS3, Haltec, Link, etc). Sink that money and put it all together and hope that you get lucky that everything works correctly the first time.

For reference, read these two threads in their entirety, then reevaluate your goals. Although what you're doing isn't impossible, it is expensive and pushing the limits of what's been done on a street car.

https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/forum/e30-technical-forums/engine-drivetrain/m20/338692-das-beast-my-e30-track-street-build

https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/for...0-build-thread

THANK YOU, I almost threw this thread away as it was a lot of insults instead of advice with general information provided to back up their opinion. I appreciate the time and effort you took in creating this response for me. Ive never been one for hard launches myself, although i have thought about selling the AWD drivetrain and going with a more reliable RWD drivetrain; although, im sure ill get alot of hate for that too. As for the engine information, THANK YOU AGAIN. thats exactly what i was looking for an ill continue the research ive been doing in order to achieve my goal. i do realize itll be expensive but like i said this is probably the last car im ever going to build and ive had this planned for quite some time now, just finally pulled the trigger on an e30 recently.

[Northern]

although i have thought about selling the AWD drivetrain and going with a more reliable RWD drivetrain; although, im sure ill get alot of hate for that too.

I would be salty about this lol.

Converting a low production iX into a meme of a common RWD e30, with worse front suspension geometry and more expensive suspension parts doesn't make sense to me.

If the front driveline is in good condition, has all the common issues sorted, and isn't abused with hard launches or wheelspin between loose surfaces/pavement, it should survive 300HP, maybe more.

If you do build your block, keep in mind the block/oil pump is iX specific for the oil pump/oil pan.

[McGyver]

THANK YOU, I almost threw this thread away as it was a lot of insults instead of advice with general information provided to back up their opinion.

Open ended questions tend to be met with insults. Specific questions tend to get the advise of knowledgeable people.

although i have thought about selling the AWD drivetrain and going with a more reliable RWD drivetrain

Don't do that. Get a RWD car if that's what you want. Scrapping a functional ix doesn't make sense. Especially since you're original goal was to turbo so you could keep the car AWD.

[rturbo 930]

THANK YOU, I almost threw this thread away as it was a lot of insults instead of advice with general information provided to back up their opinion.

One guy made a comment about you spelling "purist" wrong in your username, and the thread was "a lot of insults"? Gimme a break.

And I agree with the others, there's no point whatsoever in getting in IX just to convert it to RWD, just get one of the much more plentiful RWD E30s if you're going to do that.