part 1 of my F/I M20

[FLG]

Same here...she runs at about 12 at idle and mid 11s under boost. Little rich for idle but even with no icv rock solid 900 rpm once its warm

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[Denny]

Same here...she runs at about 12 at idle and mid 11s under boost. Little rich for idle but even with no icv rock solid 900 rpm once its warm

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I had to work very hard to get a 13.9-14.5 Idle and am sure you could achieve it too, it will for one keep your plugs a lot cleaner and last longer for sure and apparently its not good for your cylinder either to idle that rich.

Under boost mid 11.xxAFR is where all F/I cars should be ....especially in my application where Im running hotter then most the extra fuel cools down my intake a lot. When I move to the turbo side(twincharge) I will at that point install the biggest intercooler I can fit in the front and it will cool my engine down where I could possibly lean it out a bit to 12.5AFR where its Ideal to make Power.

[Mr. Tasty]

dat whine. Brings back memories of my dads JCW Mini Cooper.

[Denny]

dat whine. Brings back memories of my dads JCW Mini Cooper.

Nice Cooper :)

Actually the wine is not bad... between the M20 valves, exhaust, the wine is just perfect.

**Update**

Good news and bad news..... good news my car finally passed Provincial safety so am 100% legal in my province now and thats a huge load of my shoulders.

bad news well I have to pause the turbo side of the project as my job is now uncertain...I have to compete for my own job still cant believe this....ARG!!!#@$!@%$#^!#ER#TR$# I wont rant here about it as I would be writing all day and all night about it.

Other bad news I wont be able to go to the track today and I was so looking forward to it :( After the 5 hour drive to go do my safety I came back to 5 rib belt instead of 6 rib...have to investigate what happened and order a new belt before I stay stranded at the track or on the road... It literally shredded 1 rib.

stay tuned...

[JCarp90]

Sorry to hear about your job situation, man. I hope it all works out!

[Denny]

Sorry to hear about your job situation, man. I hope it all works out!

thanks man.

For now I will just enjoy my Supercharged M20 ..cross my fingers for this weekends weather.

[Denny]

I just changed the SC belt for a new one. Looks like the damage of the old belt was created by a rock or something. So i have to build a shield under the engine now. So if weather is nice this weekend am going to the track... :)

[evandael]

Hey man, I just read through the thread. Great work! I'm going to stay on top of this one because when VW started doing twincharging I got very interested.. and seeing it on an e30 is even more interesting. I also love what you did with the electric power steering.

Couple Q's and comments..

care to share the make/model the EPS pump came off of?
are you using an electromagnetic clutch on the s/c like the VW diagram you initially posted?


as far as turbo sizing, and system building, check out a book called Maximum Boost by Corky Bell. it's my idea of light reading :D i got it when i was 14 and have been itching to apply it for near a decade now. it's full of lots of math and diagrams for compressor and turbine sizing, intercooler sizing, etc.. and should help you have the knowledge to clarify your selections in the future.

i think based on some assumptions that a holset hx45 would be fully spooled by 4K on your motor, and an hx50 by 5K. you'd want to see where you stand as far as overall boost pressure (you say around 18psi) and how that overlays on the compressor maps to avoid surge/excessive heat gain.

the biggest issues i think you'll encounter are heatsoak, charge pipe layout, and vacuum routing. definitely stuff the largest intercooler you can find in a front-mount layout (maybe even incorporating water/meth injection at a certain psi level, like when the turbo spools). with a huge FMIC blocking airflow, maybe upgrade the radiator, thermostat, and waterpump and run an electric pusher/puller to manage heat gain in the intake air. ceramic coating the turbo manifold, turbine housing, and downpipe will help manage heat too. charge pipe layout and vacuum routing will just require care and design.

one thing i've seen that is particularly cool was from a member here on r3v by the name of Nando. you mentioned potentially upgrading to MS.. well he is running MS3 on an M20 with an M50NV harness. basically a coil on plug solution for the M20. you may want to look into that for maximum tuneability and precision ignition.

what have you done internally to the motor? when you do twincharge it, i recommend pulling the head, skimming the head, welding the coolant channels, and getting a slight rebuild (HD rockers, lapped valves to seats), and a new headgasket with ARP head studs. o-ringing the block should provide enough sealing force and with a freshly properly installed OEM headgasket, 18psi should be no issue (with proper tuning of course!)


wow i'm a windbag. anyway i think the motor as it currently sits is unique and very cool, and i applaud you thus far!

[Denny]

Hey man, I just read through the thread. Great work! I'm going to stay on top of this one because when VW started doing twincharging I got very interested.. and seeing it on an e30 is even more interesting. I also love what you did with the electric power steering.

Couple Q's and comments..

care to share the make/model the EPS pump came off of?
are you using an electromagnetic clutch on the s/c like the VW diagram you initially posted?


as far as turbo sizing, and system building, check out a book called Maximum Boost by Corky Bell. it's my idea of light reading :D i got it when i was 14 and have been itching to apply it for near a decade now. it's full of lots of math and diagrams for compressor and turbine sizing, intercooler sizing, etc.. and should help you have the knowledge to clarify your selections in the future.

i think based on some assumptions that a holset hx45 would be fully spooled by 4K on your motor, and an hx50 by 5K. you'd want to see where you stand as far as overall boost pressure (you say around 18psi) and how that overlays on the compressor maps to avoid surge/excessive heat gain.

the biggest issues i think you'll encounter are heatsoak, charge pipe layout, and vacuum routing. definitely stuff the largest intercooler you can find in a front-mount layout (maybe even incorporating water/meth injection at a certain psi level, like when the turbo spools). with a huge FMIC blocking airflow, maybe upgrade the radiator, thermostat, and waterpump and run an electric pusher/puller to manage heat gain in the intake air. ceramic coating the turbo manifold, turbine housing, and downpipe will help manage heat too. charge pipe layout and vacuum routing will just require care and design.

one thing i've seen that is particularly cool was from a member here on r3v by the name of Nando. you mentioned potentially upgrading to MS.. well he is running MS3 on an M20 with an M50NV harness. basically a coil on plug solution for the M20. you may want to look into that for maximum tuneability and precision ignition.

what have you done internally to the motor? when you do twincharge it, i recommend pulling the head, skimming the head, welding the coolant channels, and getting a slight rebuild (HD rockers, lapped valves to seats), and a new headgasket with ARP head studs. o-ringing the block should provide enough sealing force and with a freshly properly installed OEM headgasket, 18psi should be no issue (with proper tuning of course!)


wow! i'm a windbag. anyway i think the motor as it currently sits is unique and very cool, and i applaud you thus far!

Hey thanks for the comments and recommendations, I really appreciate it.

The EPS is from a Renault (not sure which one) I bought it from Ebay seller PONTIAC442.

Currently am trying to troubleshoot a non idle issue... and also for budget reasons I have to put a pause on going to the turbo side of my project.

Before my idle issues the car pulled pretty damn strong I reached a scary 13PSI still on 30# injectors.

At 13 PSI with all that instant low end torque my father in law who drives a 335i believes my car is quite faster then his...I have to agree and my GF is shocked and scared and she drives a 2012 WRX LOL..

I have finished reading corky's book maximum I'm going to draw out the system on paper and when funds arrive I will start ordering and building during the cold winter in my heated garage.

For sure I will be going MS with 60# injectors and a stronger clutch....so lots of work ahead and I will need help setting MS up.

My M20B25 has been cleaned and regasketed completely check my first blog for reference. I installed metric blues with a GOETZE OEM head gasket and so far so good it held 13 PSI with conservative timing and 11xx AFR.

Kind of disapointed with my idle and stall issue I really only have 3 weekends before the drag strip is shutdown for Winter and I park it so not even a dyno... :(

[Denny]

Looks like am OFF to the TRACK :) Car is ready to Rock!

[Denny]

Well god damn...the day was beautiful... my car is running like a champ....and Sunday Street car try outs where closed for whatever reason :(

I call the only dyno place around here and they cant book me until 2 weeks...and am storing my car away november 1st ....so the hell with this plus they want to charge me 200$ for 2 runs...

So I went with another option.... after all my research and money value..

http://www.gtechpro.com/ss_fanatic.html

I should have it this tuesday :) very excited about finally getting some numbers!!

Wait till you see the torque graph on this car...

Plus I will be able to compare to my father in law 2008 335i and GF 2012 WRX

[eight~deuce]

This reminds me of a twin charged MK4 GTI I saw in Performance VW a few years ago. I think he ended up making 800FWHP. Crazy stuff.

I don't have any advice or criticism to offer up as I have no experience with boost, but this is a killer build and I can't wait to see progress on the turbo side.

What wheels/tires do you plan on running?

[Denny]

This reminds me of a twin charged MK4 GTI I saw in Performance VW a few years ago. I think he ended up making 800FWHP. Crazy stuff.

I don't have any advice or criticism to offer up as I have no experience with boost, but this is a killer build and I can't wait to see progress on the turbo side.

What wheels/tires do you plan on running?

Yeah only a few have successfully twincharged their cars... I'm hoping to be the first one thats done it on a M20 E30 :) I should have a build thread started soon in the build section (where I should of put my SC build thread in the first place)

Right now I got ESM 16x7.5 (205/50's) fronts and 16X9 rears (225/50's) I will have to check on 245/45's but they are very very rare to find.. I may have to step up to 17's to give me a better range of tire selection...but with MS I will have traction control :) that should help with some sticky slicks at the track

[randomtask37]

I just read through this thread for the first time. Very cool concept. I havnt ever seen anyone try a twincharge... on anything. I dont know jack about FI so i cant comment much. However, i cant wait to see some videos of this thing in action.

Good luck with the car and the job non-sense if that hasnt been sorted out yet.

[Northern]

I followed the build of your car on max, and the early days of your sc build. Glad you're bringing the build to r3v!