Miller mass air

[e30trooper]

there are gains from going MAf just not as much as millers kits would lead u to believe because they arent comparing similar tunes with AFM vs MAF they are comparing MAF + tune and maybe other supporting mods to a stock AFM with stock chip.

M30 AFM vs M20 AFM seems to make a marginal difference further up the rev range but u probably would struggle to notice it until such times as the stock AFM becomes a major restriction.

id expect more chat when i get back in 45mins lol

[brody]

The quote above, why does everyone always question the tuning part of the MAF as the real result factor? That is the reason. The car will lose power if you try and put a MAF on it without a tune. The tune recalibrates the ECU so it can make use of the MAF. Of course the tune plays a roll, without it the conversion will make a car that does not run worth shit.

We compare bone stock to our MAF or PSIK because those are the things we sell, we don't sell chips for AFMs we sell MAF conversions.

Digger, you are right about the tube design. A shorter version did not make as much of a benefit.

[ak-]

The throttle response and driveability characteristics of a MAF compared to an AFM already have me sold when I did the switch on my last car. Although it was Castro's kit, I'm sure it's not much different.

[e30trooper]

any dyno logs with a chipped dme w/ stock or adjusted afm vs the maf w chip kit? not dogging the kit at all , i want one. just like to see gains vs those two.

theres a big difference between MAF kit vs a stock m20, but lets talk chip vs maf kit


im looking into going maf, my current set up is a chipped 153 with a adjusted afm , it pulls pretty good but i dont have any numbers to prove it. Compared to stock afm i put in last week, with that i had lost top end. Not sure if you guys have ever tuned afm's...

[e30trooper]

The throttle response and driveability characteristics of a MAF compared to an AFM already have me sold when I did the switch on my last car. Although it was Castro's kit, I'm sure it's not much different.

i had a lil freeway pull with edwin i guess a few days after his maf kit was installed we were dead even i started to pull in the higher rpms (5th gear passing 120 ), altho from what he told me there was still bugs with the install. I have yet to ride in a maf'd m20

[digger]

many moons ago i had my 100% stock M20 tuned with piggyback using the M20 AFM


i would look to get the Miller System if i had a stockish car.

[ak-]

i had a lil freeway pull with edwin i guess a few days after his maf kit was installed we were dead even i started to pull in the higher rpms (5th gear passing 120 ), altho from what he told me there was still bugs with the install. I have yet to ride in a maf'd m20

Probably his engine is tired or idk.
I pulled on Greg's e36 328, Henry's e36 pre-turbo, and other m20'd cars when my car was MAF/Tuned by Castro.

[e30trooper]

Probably his engine is tired or idk.
I pulled on Greg's e36 328, Henry's e36 pre-turbo, and other m20'd cars when my car was MAF/Tuned by Castro.

possibly , at the time i also had a blown HG , but didnt effect the Comp. just oil/coolant mixing.

[e30trooper]

many moons ago i had my 100% stock M20 tuned with piggyback using the M20 AFM


i would look to get the Miller System if i had a stockish car.

136.91 rwhp. What kind of piggyback are you talking bout?

[digger]

136.91 rwhp. What kind of piggyback are you talking bout?

was a unichip.....take note of the % change not absolute numbers

[e30trooper]

was a unichip.....take note of the % change not absolute numbers

also dyno dynamics dynos read lower number, i was told this by a owner of one when i got my eta dyno'd for the LOLz, put down a big 88.8 whp at 4950rpms lol

[MR 325]

What do you guys think MAX HP without opening the engine up on an M20 is? With just bolt ons? Im curious.

Also, You guys do have a point since dyno's all read differently, so on some, 200 WHP is impossible. BUT the gains we claim, not total power always holds true whether a stock car dynos at 50HP or 1000 HP, the gains we advertise and prove with our dyno sheets holds true.

Also, knowing bolt ons gets you to 180 - 185 (on our dyno and the other local mustang) a nice head like mr defensive's (325) with a good cam (not a regrind) should be good for 20 WHP or its not worth doing.

Do you guys not want it to be possible? There has been too many crappy products and results set as the norm with attitude and ACE's saying, "well, that's all you can get because no one else has done better"

There is a reason we have sold over 1000 WAR Chips and close to 2000 MAF's now.

A 2.5L M20 with "bolt ons" is lucky to see 150whp as far as I'm concerned.

Since you are clearly the expert here, tell me what the issue is with a reground cam? I myself and many MANY others I know have made what I consider to be great power with them. I guess you wouldn't consider our numbers good though since you're making 200whp with intake and exhaust mods.

Of course we want new things to be possible for the M20 engine. I have nothing against your kits and I do believe they provide gains. As nando said what we are questioning are the ridiculous numbers you are providing us.

Wow. Why is everyone bashing Brody?
There are not alot of companies developing kits for e30s guys, the gains claimed are impressive and I for one am optimistic about them, but i balance that with healthy skepticism. I do agree that the miller dynos are nebulous, you can't tell what gains came from where, but I don't think it's on purpose or to be deceptive. I think it's great that we have a R&Ded intake option.

The people that are "bashing" him here have actually built performance M20 engines, some of us have done a few of them. We know what it takes to make power out of these engines in REAL LIFE. As I said above I have nothing against his MAF kits, it's his numbers that are BS.

Thanks!

Sarcasm owned you on this one.

I'm sorry that our employees don't want to starve and go homeless trying todevelop products and producing them without a paycheck.

Maybe if you dropped the attitude problem and the clear disregard for these forums and their potential to sell your products you'd make even more sales! Then, you could charge a lower price. After all, more sales = more happy customers which = more word of mouth which = more sales. But hey, these forums don't matter, right?

[e30trooper]

A 2.5L M20 with "bolt ons" is lucky to see 150whp as far as I'm concerned.

Since you are clearly the expert here, tell me what the issue is with a reground cam? I myself and many MANY others I know have made what I consider to be great power with them. I guess you wouldn't consider our numbers good though since you're making 200whp with intake and exhaust mods.

Of course we want new things to be possible for the M20 engine. I have nothing against your kits and I do believe they provide gains. As nando said what we are questioning are the ridiculous numbers you are providing us.


The people that are "bashing" him here have actually built performance M20 engines, some of us have done a few of them. We know what it takes to make power out of these engines in REAL LIFE. As I said above I have nothing against his MAF kits, it's his numbers that are BS.


Sarcasm owned you on this one.


Maybe if you dropped the attitude problem and the clear disregard for these forums and their potential to sell your products you'd make even more sales! Then, you could charge a lower price. After all, more sales = more happy customers which = more word of mouth which = more sales. But hey, these forums don't matter, right?

truth^, more sales w/ less profit over less sales w/ more profit will turn more money in the long run.

[Bearmw]

truth^, more sales w/ less profit over less sales w/ more profit will turn more money in the long run.

Not necessarily. That may be an overly broad generalization. I have worked doing sales in certain businesses where the idea of selling/servicing more at lower prices (aka bottom feeding) was scrapped to instead cater to fewer but wealthier customers with good success. The idea was to do "quality" sales over volume. I am no economist but a famous one once said something like "In the long run were all dead".

Anyone else want to share business philosophy?

[brody]

A 2.5L M20 with "bolt ons" is lucky to see 150whp as far as I'm concerned.

Since you are clearly the expert here, tell me what the issue is with a reground cam? I myself and many MANY others I know have made what I consider to be great power with them. I guess you wouldn't consider our numbers good though since you're making 200whp with intake and exhaust mods.

Of course we want new things to be possible for the M20 engine. I have nothing against your kits and I do believe they provide gains. As nando said what we are questioning are the ridiculous numbers you are providing us.


The people that are "bashing" him here have actually built performance M20 engines, some of us have done a few of them. We know what it takes to make power out of these engines in REAL LIFE. As I said above I have nothing against his MAF kits, it's his numbers that are BS.


Sarcasm owned you on this one.


Maybe if you dropped the attitude problem and the clear disregard for these forums and their potential to sell your products you'd make even more sales! Then, you could charge a lower price. After all, more sales = more happy customers which = more word of mouth which = more sales. But hey, these forums don't matter, right?

If you need to have an explanation a to why a new from blank cam is better than a regrind im sad.

I didn't say 200whp from intake and exhaust, read again numtard. Also, what are YOUR baseline numbers for a stock M20? What ate your flow numbers before and after for your heads?

I guess sarcasm is the one that actually owns you? The "thanks" was a FU too remark.

As far as your opinion on my attitude and price, just shows your ignorance of what the market will handle. We have been doing this since 2005 and have gotten to a point where sales are consistent and the market potential as far as sales performance goes is as perfect as it will realistically be. We can't get any better on our pricing and we purchase in more volume than necessary. Unless you want more shit farmed out to china instead of keeping jobs and money in north America the price won't come down. But hey, your a millionaire because of this industry right?

The forums are valuable, the people who google something find and read these posts and buy our products. The people sitting here arguining do just that, argue with me about what they THINK our business should be doing without any knowledge of what is actually going on in the industry and our business.