that's exactly what I'm talking about! it would not be hard at all to seperate just the intake kit from the MAF kit in a dyno - both could be tuned for your MAF kit. right?
I agree, what I'm saying is, increasing the size of the pipe in front of the small TB isn't the primary cause of improvement.
Yeah, I don't get it. There's a market for people like you and me, who are never going to buy their products anyway - ship it without the MAF for $395 and make some money? Why not?
because the MAF tune is irrelevant to me! This is what you are failing to understand. Look, you aren't going to gain a huge amount of power from changing from 13.5:1 AFR to 13:1 AFR (or vice versa, depending on the engine). You are going to gain power by optimizing ignition timing, which has nothing to do with the MAF. the MAF part of the tune is just optimizing the fuel ratio for the engine (not for the MAF). It doesn't matter what you're using to measure load or airflow, the optimial fuel ratio and ignition timing is going to be the SAME on a given engine. If you did the same amount of tuning with some other load device, you'd get really similar results. That it's a MAF, MAP or Alpha-N or whatever doesn't make any difference to me. And I'm never going to buy a MAF!
huh? look, I don't like regrinds for other reasons - but from a performance standpoint, if it's done right there's no real reason it can't work well.
But you did say 200whp from a 2.5l (stock bottom end). I'm telling you, this is basically impossible. that's going to require around 240bhp, or nearly 100hp/l. To make that from stock displacement is going to take about 8,000rpm. That's revving the piss out of it - I take mine to 7500, beyond that would make me cringe. You couldn't do that with stock pistons either, because the cam you'd need to be optimized for that much power/RPM would have to be rather wild, and would require a wild static CR to suit.
Saying you could do 200whp from a 2.5l, with just headwork/cam and other bolt ons, is absolutely stupid. You're talking about a 40% gain in power. To do that, you have to make the engine 40% more efficient. Don't you see how hard that would be? It wouldn't be anything *near* stock afterwards.
Why so defensive? We're skeptical for a reason. This doesn't help your case.
I know that wasn't directed at me but I don't care about your prices.
What I'm telling you is there is a market for people like me and digger, who don't have anything stock left of their engines, that need an intake kit (because no good ones exist), and you COULD seperate the "MAF" part of the equation from the performance gain (dyno full PSIK vs GenIII MAF on the same car), but you refuse (or get really defensive) when asked. Why? You have an opportunity to corner a niche market and make some people happy.
I don't care at all about your MAF tune because it's useless to me - my engine is already optimized. Changing the intake would only mean rematching my VE table to my already optimized AFR target. That's not what I consider tuning, it would quite literally take me about 5 minutes and 3 WOT pulls. If I changed something inside the engine that required a different MBT or AFR for the best torque, that would require tuning (on a dyno), but an intake kit (and a MAF by itself) doesn't do that.
Maybe there's some big problem with ordering your intake tubing without a MAF, I don't know, but you could just say that instead of getting upset and telling us we don't know WTF we're talking about. You could think of me as a potential customer instead of an enemy to argue with.
I agree, what I'm saying is, increasing the size of the pipe in front of the small TB isn't the primary cause of improvement.
Yeah, I don't get it. There's a market for people like you and me, who are never going to buy their products anyway - ship it without the MAF for $395 and make some money? Why not?
because the MAF tune is irrelevant to me! This is what you are failing to understand. Look, you aren't going to gain a huge amount of power from changing from 13.5:1 AFR to 13:1 AFR (or vice versa, depending on the engine). You are going to gain power by optimizing ignition timing, which has nothing to do with the MAF. the MAF part of the tune is just optimizing the fuel ratio for the engine (not for the MAF). It doesn't matter what you're using to measure load or airflow, the optimial fuel ratio and ignition timing is going to be the SAME on a given engine. If you did the same amount of tuning with some other load device, you'd get really similar results. That it's a MAF, MAP or Alpha-N or whatever doesn't make any difference to me. And I'm never going to buy a MAF!
huh? look, I don't like regrinds for other reasons - but from a performance standpoint, if it's done right there's no real reason it can't work well.
I didn't say 200whp from intake and exhaust, read again numtard. Also, what are YOUR baseline numbers for a stock M20? What ate your flow numbers before and after for your heads?
Saying you could do 200whp from a 2.5l, with just headwork/cam and other bolt ons, is absolutely stupid. You're talking about a 40% gain in power. To do that, you have to make the engine 40% more efficient. Don't you see how hard that would be? It wouldn't be anything *near* stock afterwards.
I guess sarcasm is the one that actually owns you? The "thanks" was a FU too remark.
As far as your opinion on my attitude and price, just shows your ignorance of what the market will handle. We have been doing this since 2005 and have gotten to a point where sales are consistent and the market potential as far as sales performance goes is as perfect as it will realistically be. We can't get any better on our pricing and we purchase in more volume than necessary. Unless you want more shit farmed out to china instead of keeping jobs and money in north America the price won't come down. But hey, your a millionaire because of this industry right?
The forums are valuable, the people who google something find and read these posts and buy our products. The people sitting here arguining do just that, argue with me about what they THINK our business should be doing without any knowledge of what is actually going on in the industry and our business.
The forums are valuable, the people who google something find and read these posts and buy our products. The people sitting here arguining do just that, argue with me about what they THINK our business should be doing without any knowledge of what is actually going on in the industry and our business.
What I'm telling you is there is a market for people like me and digger, who don't have anything stock left of their engines, that need an intake kit (because no good ones exist), and you COULD seperate the "MAF" part of the equation from the performance gain (dyno full PSIK vs GenIII MAF on the same car), but you refuse (or get really defensive) when asked. Why? You have an opportunity to corner a niche market and make some people happy.
I don't care at all about your MAF tune because it's useless to me - my engine is already optimized. Changing the intake would only mean rematching my VE table to my already optimized AFR target. That's not what I consider tuning, it would quite literally take me about 5 minutes and 3 WOT pulls. If I changed something inside the engine that required a different MBT or AFR for the best torque, that would require tuning (on a dyno), but an intake kit (and a MAF by itself) doesn't do that.
Maybe there's some big problem with ordering your intake tubing without a MAF, I don't know, but you could just say that instead of getting upset and telling us we don't know WTF we're talking about. You could think of me as a potential customer instead of an enemy to argue with.
Comment