Miller mass air

[brody]

What do you guys think MAX HP without opening the engine up on an M20 is? With just bolt ons? Im curious.

Also, You guys do have a point since dyno's all read differently, so on some, 200 WHP is impossible. BUT the gains we claim, not total power always holds true whether a stock car dynos at 50HP or 1000 HP, the gains we advertise and prove with our dyno sheets holds true.

Also, knowing bolt ons gets you to 180 - 185 (on our dyno and the other local mustang) a nice head like mr defensive's (325) with a good cam (not a regrind) should be good for 20 WHP or its not worth doing.

Do you guys not want it to be possible? There has been too many crappy products and results set as the norm with attitude and ACE's saying, "well, that's all you can get because no one else has done better"

There is a reason we have sold over 1000 WAR Chips and close to 2000 MAF's now.

[nando]

I want it to be possible, sure, but I know it isn't. you don't have any idea how hard I've tried to get near 200whp with a motor not anywhere near stock, without off the shelf marketing BS products either.

[Kershaw]

well nando, i'll probably be purchasing their war chip and psik in the spring. my red ix going up in fire kind of killed my turbo money for awhile. i'll try to get it dyno'd.

honestly though, i just like the sound of an aftermarket intake. hence the aem cai on my rx8. haha. they claimed 15 or 20whp with that too. definitely didnt make those numbers. lol. rx8 airbox is similar to the e30 one, both have an internal velocity stack.

[nando]

I'm willing to bet with the ix and miller kit you don't break 140whp on a dynojet. But, definitely give it a whirl! there's very few ix dynos that I've seen.

[LowR3V'in]

BUT the gains we claim, not total power always holds true whether a stock car dynos at 50HP or 1000 HP, the gains we advertise and prove with our dyno sheets holds true.

Also, knowing bolt-ons gets you to 180 - 185 (on our dyno and the other local mustang) a nice head like mr defensive's (325) with a good cam (not a regrind) should be good for 20 WHP or its not worth doing.

There is a reason we have sold over 1000 WAR Chips and close to 2000 MAF's now.

Hi brody, what bolt ons get you 185hp? That is awesome power please
share!:!:

Also what is your baseline? that might help clear this up.
Your dyno might be showing 170whp for a stock m20, we don't know.

I dyned a stock m20 at 145hp on a dynojet 40hp in bolt ons sounds too
good to be true.

[brody]

Just go look at th WAR machine threa for starters. Bone stock m20's dyno around 140 to 145 on our dyno. We have had a couple tired ones do 130.

I have to fin the sheet and upload it, but on our dyno, the same stock car went from 143 to 178 (smoothed) with a PSIK, 2.5" exhaust w/stock manifolds, and a clutch fan delete. A bone stock m20 with nothing but the PSIK, 14x HP and 167 after. Nothing else.

To get to 200 whp, a good head with a well designed cam, full exhaust, not a set of $200 headers, fan delete and drive pulley adjustment, larger injectors a nice intake like a PSIk or similar and possibly a modification of the intake plenum is all that is needed.

We have proven why our cold air intake actually makes power. We call it a CAinfor ease of marketing, the real benefit is not the cold air, but the fact that vacuum in the intake tract has been reduced considerably. It's all in the WAR Machine thread.

[brody]

And Kershaw, the PSIK doesn't fit on the iX we had one in this summer to find out no bueno for the tube routing. An AWD is also totally unfair in terms of power comparison, they loose way more power through the driveline.

[digger]

too bad there are no dyno plots showing the gains from PSIK alone, and that you dont sell it without a MAF.........

[brody]

too bad there are no dyno plots showing the gains from PSIK alone, and that you dont sell it without a MAF.........

That's the whole product... An intake SYSTEM, why would we build a PSIK to be used with the AFM when we are trying to reduce all restrictions? And there is a dyno with just the PSIK vs bone stock. The PSIK is not a tube by itself, it's an induction SYSTEM.

[digger]

That's the whole product... An intake SYSTEM, why would we build a PSIK to be used with the AFM when we are trying to reduce all restrictions? And there is a dyno with just the PSIK vs bone stock. The PSIK is not a tube by itself, it's an induction SYSTEM.

for those who dont use the AFM or a MAF...........i.e. they use Alpha N or MAP with an different ECU.

the PSIK is a tube with MAF inside with filter on the end.........for those who don't want MAF they want a tube and filter to replce the everything forward of the throttle body........

I mean a dyno of the "normal" MAF vs PSIK (only the PSIK so that means no smart fan or HFE) so that the effect of the tube and induction are known and not the effect of retuning the stock car. This will show why it makes more power.

[brody]

for those who dont use the AFM or a MAF...........i.e. they use Alpha N or MAP with an different ECU.

the PSIK is a tube with MAF inside with filter on the end.........for those who don't want MAF they want a tube and filter to replce the everything forward of the throttle body........

I mean a dyno of the "normal" MAF vs PSIK (only the PSIK so that means no smart fan or HFE) so that the effect of the tube and induction are known and not the effect of retuning the stock car. This will show why it makes more power.

We are not concerned about catering to non stock ecu cars. If you want to buy the PSIK and ditch the MAF go right ahead, just build a block off plate for the flange.

Also, deduction would conclude that the gains come from the decreased vacuum in the intake caused by the 3" intake the PSIK provides. Why? Nothing else mechanically has changed from the PSIK other than the revised intake tract when comparing to the MAF conversion. The MAF sensor is still operating on a 0-5v signal, the tune is irrelevant because both cases the tune is done for the sake of the MAF being there. Thus the gains between the normal MAF and PSIK is almost entirely due to the 3" intake.

Without tuning on a stock ecu a MAF conversion doesn't work. The normal MAF is 12 - 15 peak HP, the PSIK is worth 18 - 22 HP on a stock car. The increased gains comes from the intake improvement, not the MAF calibrating. If a car is limited to a certain performance based on hardware and not the tune, meaning you can tune what you have all day long and get no where, and then you make a mechanical change which allows you to tune better or allows the current tune to perform better, who gives a shit about what the product alone no tune does? Especially when all our products come with a matching tune to maximize the potential of the product and car as a whole?

[digger]

We are not concerned about catering to non stock ecu cars. If you want to buy the PSIK and ditch the MAF go right ahead, just build a block off plate for the flange.

Also, deduction would conclude that the gains come from the decreased vacuum in the intake caused by the 3" intake the PSIK provides. Why? Nothing else mechanically has changed from the PSIK other than the revised intake tract when comparing to the MAF conversion. The MAF sensor is still operating on a 0-5v signal, the tune is irrelevant because both cases the tune is done for the sake of the MAF being there. Thus the gains between the normal MAF and PSIK is almost entirely due to the 3" intake.

Without tuning on a stock ecu a MAF conversion doesn't work. The normal MAF is 12 - 15 peak HP, the PSIK is worth 18 - 22 HP on a stock car. The increased gains comes from the intake improvement, not the MAF calibrating. If a car is limited to a certain performance based on hardware and not the tune, meaning you can tune what you have all day long and get no where, and then you make a mechanical change which allows you to tune better or allows the current tune to perform better, who gives a shit about what the product alone no tune does? Especially when all our products come with a matching tune to maximize the potential of the product and car as a whole?

What is the cost to buy the PSIK if there is no MAF / software included , just the tube, elbow, filter and brackets/hardware?

if you produce a graph where the original Miller MAF has been swapped with a PSIK then yes you are correct, but i have yet to see you guys post one. I have seen a graph where the miller MAf was swapped with a PSIK but this also included the HFE and smart fan making it impossible to differentiate between the gains from induction setup and the HFE and Fan.

[brody]

What is the cost to buy the PSIK if there is no MAF / software included , just the tube, elbow, filter and brackets/hardware?

if you produce a graph where the original Miller MAF has been swapped with a PSIK then yes you are correct, but i have yet to see you guys post one. I have seen a graph where the miller MAf was swapped with a PSIK but this also included the HFE and smart fan making it impossible to differentiate between the gains from induction setup and the HFE and Fan.

649.00 we are set up in production and stock accordingly to sell full PSIK kits.

I will find the setups you wish to see on one chart and post them tomorrow.

[Myster-E]

Just go look at th WAR machine threa for starters. Bone stock m20's dyno around 140 to 145 on our dyno. We have had a couple tired ones do 130.

I have to fin the sheet and upload it, but on our dyno, the same stock car went from 143 to 178 (smoothed) with a PSIK, 2.5" exhaust w/stock manifolds, and a clutch fan delete. A bone stock m20 with nothing but the PSIK, 14x HP and 167 after. Nothing else.

To get to 200 whp, a good head with a well designed cam, full exhaust, not a set of $200 headers, fan delete and drive pulley adjustment, larger injectors a nice intake like a PSIk or similar and possibly a modification of the intake plenum is all that is needed.

We have proven why our cold air intake actually makes power. We call it a CAinfor ease of marketing, the real benefit is not the cold air, but the fact that vacuum in the intake tract has been reduced considerably. It's all in the WAR Machine thread.

Good luck with that

[bastianshaw]

Wow. Why is everyone bashing Brody?
There are not alot of companies developing kits for e30s guys, the gains claimed are impressive and I for one am optimistic about them, but i balance that with healthy skepticism. I do agree that the miller dynos are nebulous, you can't tell what gains came from where, but I don't think it's on purpose or to be deceptive. I think it's great that we have a R&Ded intake option.