simple hidden m20 perfomance?

[smooth]

Not super cheap, but they claim big gains for the money. Miller has their own website with prices you can look at.

Mine should be here in the next couple days and i am doing before and after dyno testing.

LJ,

In another thread you were offered either a guarantee of gains or brody to pay for your runs, right? Did you get the chance to run before and afters?

I'm genuinely curious about this whole thing.

digger, maybe I was coming across as a douche but look at it from my perspective:
I was answering a guy who says he didn't want to mess about, just wanted some "simple" performance. you advised the psik which is near $700. I mentioned an alternative that's all. I didn't say take my word for it, but you've been here as long as I and know well enough that loads of people buy legit chips and the first thing they do is dyno runs and post here that it worked or they didn't. my point was that those dyno runs are as good or better than the dyno runs Miller puts up as adcopy. neither are directly meaningful to the my car, your car, the OP's car other than to say that gains can be had. I never said gains can't be had...you said that about Turner's chip. well you questioned the claim in any event, which is quite silly at this point in the game imo.

but nevertheless, the reality is that halfway through the guy states he *does* indeed want to fiddle about. well the only way he can do that is with a war chip (or a megasquirt). I advised the war chip at that point and I suggested an alternative with the megasquirt if he wanted to have even more control. all depends on how involved he wants to be.

so with the psik and the war chip the price would be $1,000. and he even mentioned he wants to spend $1,000 if that's the cost of buying performance. so I compared there's this option that is relatively complex and expensive or there's this other option that is simple and less expensive.

in any case, the point was to bring options to his table so he can choose. but never did I ever say take my word for it and don't buy this or that. I merely suggested that he look into a less expensive option because I suspect it would suit his needs enough. but he still has to read up on the info available. perhaps I was a bit of a douche to you so I apologize for that but at the same it's not like I was recommending some ebay chip to him so I think you didn't need to try and shoot my information down like that.

[LJ851]

LJ,

In another thread you were offered either a guarantee of gains or brody to pay for your runs, right? Did you get the chance to run before and afters?

I'm genuinely curious about this whole thing.

I have the psik, but due to unforeseen circumstances i have not installed it yet. I am waiting to install it on the dyno however, so i will have #'s, hopefully soon. My apologies for the delay.

[digger]

LJ,

In another thread you were offered either a guarantee of gains or brody to pay for your runs, right? Did you get the chance to run before and afters?

I'm genuinely curious about this whole thing.

digger, maybe I was coming across as a douche but look at it from my perspective:
I was answering a guy who says he didn't want to mess about, just wanted some "simple" performance. you advised the psik which is near $700. I mentioned an alternative that's all. I didn't say take my word for it, but you've been here as long as I and know well enough that loads of people buy legit chips and the first thing they do is dyno runs and post here that it worked or they didn't. my point was that those dyno runs are as good or better than the dyno runs Miller puts up as adcopy. neither are directly meaningful to the my car, your car, the OP's car other than to say that gains can be had. I never said gains can't be had...you said that about Turner's chip. well you questioned the claim in any event, which is quite silly at this point in the game imo.

but nevertheless, the reality is that halfway through the guy states he *does* indeed want to fiddle about. well the only way he can do that is with a war chip (or a megasquirt). I advised the war chip at that point and I suggested an alternative with the megasquirt if he wanted to have even more control. all depends on how involved he wants to be.

so with the psik and the war chip the price would be $1,000. and he even mentioned he wants to spend $1,000 if that's the cost of buying performance. so I compared there's this option that is relatively complex and expensive or there's this other option that is simple and less expensive.

in any case, the point was to bring options to his table so he can choose. but never did I ever say take my word for it and don't buy this or that. I merely suggested that he look into a less expensive option because I suspect it would suit his needs enough. but he still has to read up on the info available. perhaps I was a bit of a douche to you so I apologize for that but at the same it's not like I was recommending some ebay chip to him so I think you didn't need to try and shoot my information down like that.

You didn’t just mention an alternative, you said

“You can get a chip for 1/3 the price that will give you noticeable gains. This Miller chip isn't any better”

Which equates to bagging their product without any sort of proof that their dynos are BS or that other chips come remotely close to their claims

I don’t know if Miller products work or not but they should be given the benefit of the doubt until shown otherwise. If the gains don’t translate into other cars tested independently then fair enough call them out.

It is rubbish that because it is a different car the results are next to meaningless. Miller have stated they do maintenance before they do their work so if your car is also well maintained any gains will translate, maybe not exact but reasonably close if no “tricks” are used.

Also there are very few dyno plots from the more traditional plug and play chips and why it doesn’t make sense to bag out a company for actually trying to verify their products work.

[smooth]

You didn’t just mention an alternative, you said

“You can get a chip for 1/3 the price that will give you noticeable gains. This Miller chip isn't any better”

Which equates to bagging their product without any sort of proof that their dynos are BS or that other chips come remotely close to their claims

You know what, mate, if you're going to put something in quotes like I said it you should use the complete sentence. I find it strange that you'd use half a sentence like that. Makes it seem like you are intentionally twisting the meaning of what I wrote.

The point is that you can chip your car for a whole lot less and get similar gains. The Miller/MAF setup might be worth something if you were going to do the tuning yourself. But if you're not going to then just get a pre-baked TMS chip and call it done for 1/3 the price.

You can get a chip for 1/3 the price that will give you noticeable gains. This Miller chip isn't any better unless you want to go for the WAR chip and then you'd have the ability to reprogram the chip. But it doesn't sound like that would be interesting or even necessary for you (since you don't want to add a turbo for example).

The other portion of the price is the MAF. There are less expensive ways to get a MAF on an M20.

I've said my piece and you want to try and twist my words. Well there they are re-quoted for everyone reading the thread. If you can't be mature enough to drop it when I apologize for offending you and instead try to make me out to be something I never was then that's that.

[digger]

You know what, mate, if you're going to put something in quotes like I said it you should use the complete sentence. I find it strange that you'd use half a sentence like that. Makes it seem like you are intentionally twisting the meaning of what I wrote.


I've said my piece and you want to try and twist my words. Well there they are re-quoted for everyone reading the thread. If you can't be mature enough to drop it when I apologize for offending you and instead try to make me out to be something I never was then that's that.

The intention was not to twist anything. The point is you were bagging/belittling a product with nothing to back it up. Whether one reads what i quoted or your whole post does not change that.

I am not offended at all and an apology wasnt neccesary and as far as i am concerned that is the end of it.

[CarsSuck]

LJ....we're all still waiting

[DaveSmed]

I just want to get the most power from the engine without opening it up.

Injectors, electric fan, and 4.10 would be solid upgrades. I cant do internal engine work myself. Cat is as good as gone, nobody cares in sc. Also interested by the ability to change tunes on the fly.

I'm still in awe at how people have such a woody over keeping the stock DME because they can now add a MAF to it, so much so to the tune of spending serious coin on it.


It. is. outdated.


It will NEVER be as responsive as a newer car, or even one with a carburetor. It can not compensate for rapid changes in throttle, since it has no freaking clue what the throttle is doing, unless you are already at WOT (or idling).

The basic functionality of an accelerator pump in a carb is impossible on the stock DME. It kinda winged it by the inertia of the vane door overshooting then settling in.

Retrofit a M50 DME or go MS for the smart dollar/power ratio.

[nando]

I'm still in awe at how people have such a woody over keeping the stock DME because they can now add a MAF to it, so much so to the tune of spending serious coin on it.


It. is. outdated.


It will NEVER be as responsive as a newer car, or even one with a carburetor. It can not compensate for rapid changes in throttle, since it has no freaking clue what the throttle is doing, unless you are already at WOT (or idling).

The basic functionality of an accelerator pump in a carb is impossible on the stock DME. It kinda winged it by the inertia of the vane door overshooting then settling in.

Retrofit a M50 DME or go MS for the smart dollar/power ratio.

everything in this post is true. :)

MAF conversions = waste of time..