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Power Squeeze, What can the M20 really do?

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    Power Squeeze, What can the M20 really do?

    So, as I sit here and contemplate a swap for my E30, it dawns on me, It MIGHT be possible to make the kind of power I am looking for with my M20, which right now is a bastard mix of a Seta longblock with the stock eta fuel system management, electronics, and exhaust. So I did some searching, and got a few answers, but I have not been able to get anything definitive. Thus this topic.

    Long of the short: How much power can you realistically squeeze out of a M20?

    Stock figures are:
    M20B23 (euro 323i) 150 hp
    M20B25 (i motors) 168 hp
    M20B27 (eta motors) 121 hp
    M20B27 Super (88 Seta) 127 hp

    I'm Personally shooting for about 250hp and 250 ft/lb of torque, and do it N/A, so far I'm thinking to do it, I will need to build a M20B30, using IE's 3.0 or 3.1 kit, and a lot of head work, using a 885 head as the starting point, and of course lots of fuel system, exhaust system changes, and ECU Programming....

    So, what I am looking for in this topic is fairly simple;
    1: what is the max power an M20 can make, Both unreliably and reliably, N/A and Forced induction.
    2: What kind of power are you getting, and what have you done to get there?
    Dumpster Fire Pilot

    #2
    A lot of people are just going to say your wasting your money and go 24 valve, you can get 200whp with out to much work but 250 is a lot. You might want to look into megasquirt and itb's they can help out. To be honest for those power goals you could build a very responsive turbo setup and it would probably be a lot cheaper.
    Your signature picture has been removed since it contained the Photobucket "upgrade your account" image.

    IX being restored here

    Ix turbo build here

    Comment


      #3
      A NA m20 can make those numbers at the crank in a streetable fashion if you are prepared to pay for it and know some fundamentals.

      350rwhp has been done NA but not what would be called reliably a pure race engine and all that often comes with it.
      89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

      new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

      Comment


        #4
        I have researched this thoroughly and the best way to make power with the M20 without going "I" or swapping is to slap a turbo on it. I know you said you wanted to stay N/A but it is the cheapest and best way to make big power on this engine imo.
        sigpic87 325E The Honey Badger

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          #5
          AFAIK most powerful m20: http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/05/...turbo-bmw-e30/, IMHO you could expect M54B30 figures from a streetable NA m20 3liter stroker without really expensive components like roller cam or ITBs, but it will be more peaky.
          Last edited by raudonis; 09-26-2014, 02:23 PM.
          My transaction feedback on r3vlimited :):Clickety click

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            #6
            N/A you're looking at 200-350rwhp
            http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...91&postcount=9

            Comment


              #7
              Bottom line is its achieve n/a but its much much more expensive. Get the proper sized turbo, get a mild cam and you could have 250hp all day long for alot less and be very reliable if done right on a stock bottom end, stock displacement.

              Comment


                #8
                RHD M20 ITB's, aggressive cam (288+ ish), 3.0 stroker and a standalone. That should get you in the 250+ crank hp range. Or you could cheat with high comp and e85 ;)
                Just swap in a m30b35 and throw in a cam. You'll be making 200+ at the wheels with no effort.

                N/A is going to cost you monies, lots and lots of monies.

                Comment


                  #9
                  RHD has written they have a 293rwhp in an e21. Check out their web page.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    youre a bit late mate that was like 5 or more years ago
                    89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

                    new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I think a NA M20 that makes 250 HP on pump gas will not be all that fun to drive on the streets. I had a Schrick 284 in my last engine (a stroker) and it was lumpy at idle and not that impressive at midrange RPMs. I think it was making just under 180 crank HP on the dyno.
                      '91 325i

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Nader393 View Post
                        I think a NA M20 that makes 250 HP on pump gas will not be all that fun to drive on the streets. I had a Schrick 284 in my last engine (a stroker) and it was lumpy at idle and not that impressive at midrange RPMs. I think it was making just under 180 crank HP on the dyno.
                        depends, a stock capacity m20b25 with stock intake, stock CR and 28x ish cam would be a dog on the street especially with motronic

                        However a 2.8L+ with appropriate CR, RHD ITB, standalone ECU, 284 cam, appropriate exhaust would drive smoothly on the street with nice wide torque band.
                        89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

                        new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Nader393 View Post
                          I think a NA M20 that makes 250 HP on pump gas will not be all that fun to drive on the streets. I had a Schrick 284 in my last engine (a stroker) and it was lumpy at idle and not that impressive at midrange RPMs. I think it was making just under 180 crank HP on the dyno.
                          I have built a bunch of budget strokers in the years since this thread was posted (2.7 crank/rods, 2.5 pistons) and they put down 180whp with stock cams...

                          https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/for...52#post7038352

                          This car is a local daily driver, 200+whp, 200+wtq, 272°, ITB...

                          https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/for...18#post6509718

                          Remote tuned a r3v member's 11.5:1 2.9l, 284°, made 215/212, another member's 10.5:1 3.0l, 284°, made 218, etc etc.

                          It's old thinking that the m20 cannot make good power. I even have a customer with a stock mani/tb making over 200whp, and it's not even stroked.



                          john@m20guru.com
                          Links:
                          Transaction feedback: Here, here and here. Thanks :D

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Oh, man, I didn’t realize the thread was this old. Your results are impressive, and encouraging. What do you suggest for tuning software, since I’m in the process of building an engine right now?
                            '91 325i

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Whatever your tuna prefers
                              89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

                              new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

                              Comment

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