Interesting Rocker Discovery

[jeffnhiscars]

I've read enough about replacement rockers to know that u less you spend a bundle, it's hit and miss. Since my 731 is going in a DD with an auto trans I opted for Febi with the vendor commitment that they were made in Germany which the box supports.

However, upon inspection I see some large inconsistencies in where the eccentric bolt hole is drilled. Measuring from the edge of hole to the outside of the casting i found 7 were 2mm and over with the thickest being 2.52 and 5 were under 2mm with 3 being 1.25-1.38 and 2 being 1.75-1.81mm

I realize there is a fair amount of clamping force on the eccentric so this may not matter especially since they tend to break above the hole but this seems like a big difference and clearly some are quite thin (actually half the thickness)

note...I just measured the OEs and they are from 2.60-2-85mm. That's not just a big difference in the amount of meat but in consistency (QC)

[digger]

realistically i doubt it matters, but what else about them is not of a quality that one would expect?

[jeffnhiscars]

There's enough casting flash to call them "messy" and bring in to question whether they were really made in Germany despite what the box says. Side by side with OE and the difference is significant.

[AndrewBird]

They might be made from original factory molds and as they wear, the flashing will increase because the edges of the mold halves wear and don't provide as good of a seal.

[jeffnhiscars]

Here's another shot. Feels more like China tha. Germany. I'll see what my machinist says

[AndrewBird]

What is that picture supposed to show?

[TobyB]

how crappy the casting is, how it leaks over, and how it cools as it's leaking...
the pad doesn't even look seated into one of the castings.

Shit, those look terrible compared to what was coming out of Febi even 5 years ago.

The hole would only worry me if the geometry was wrong, i.e. the hole is moved
relative to the lash pad and rocker hole. The aluminum metallurgy would worry me
significantly, given how many voids were in the much better looking rockers.
Better break a few and see how they look inside!

I wouldn't use them. They DON'T look Febi, they DO look counterfeit, and for not much
more (and less than oem,) you could get Ireland HD, or even KD Cams steel rockers.

Blech!

t

[jeffnhiscars]

how crappy the casting is, how it leaks over, and how it cools as it's leaking...
the pad doesn't even look seated into one of the castings.

Shit, those look terrible compared to what was coming out of Febi even 5 years ago.

The hole would only worry me if the geometry was wrong, i.e. the hole is moved
relative to the lash pad and rocker hole. The aluminum metallurgy would worry me
significantly, given how many voids were in the much better looking rockers.
Better break a few and see how they look inside!

I wouldn't use them. They DON'T look Febi, they DO look counterfeit, and for not much
more (and less than oem,) you could get Ireland HD, or even KD Cams steel rockers.

Blech!

t

This reflects my current sentiment. I have too much effort and cash invested in this head which I'm already having reservations about simply because the car runs flawlessly. If I do it at all I don't want to introduce any issues which these rockers have real the potential to be.

The only option that has never had any bad feedback is OE but the cost makes no sense. As much of a best practice as new rockers to go with a new cam is, the ones in the engine now may be a better bet than what I'm seeing.

Jury is out.

[jeffnhiscars]

If you look at the top pic, the rocker on the right has a #2 which is probably the mold number since I have 4x#1; 4x3; 2x4 and 2x2 and all the ones with low clearance to the edge are in group 3. Clearly the boring machine for that batch needed adjusting that day since there's a pattern.

I'm still not thrilled about the casting quality but if my machinist clears them I may just replace the 4 #3s

[SkiFree]

The only option that has never had any bad feedback is OE but the cost makes no sense. .

I have literally had dozens of guys and a couple competent race shops have plenty of bad feedback there too. If you look hard enough there are "issues" with everything.

Interesting note, gentleman from bmw classic was over last week picking up another batch of IE HD's for the factory cars. Take that as you will.

[ForcedFirebird]

HD rockers are only a few dollars more than Febi, ~$60 for a full set is cheap insurance.

[ForcedFirebird]

I have literally had dozens of guys and a couple competent race shops have plenty of bad feedback there too. If you look hard enough there are "issues" with everything.

Interesting note, gentleman from bmw classic was over last week picking up another batch of IE HD's for the factory cars. Take that as you will.

Yup. The only time I use Febi is if one rocker broke in a client car and we need one right now...I can get those locally ;)

[jeffnhiscars]

Of course I agree with both of you. Nothing is perfect, everything has a value and it's all about what makes sense to each of us in our world. I had one vendor offer me Lazo rockers...German company but made in China. He's sold "hundreds" and never had a compliant. I passed on those even though they could very well have lasted long enough and they were cheap.

I took the Febis and the rockers that came on the head to my machine shop. He did say the placement of the eccentric bolt hole was no big deal since the real stress on a rocker is up not down but he agreed that the variation in quality was hard to ignore.

he also said my OE rockers were in excellent shape and that he wouldn't hesitate to reuse them even with a ne cam. I'll look at the ones that come off the eta (w it's 126k and one 87yo owner) and choose the best of the lot.

The Febis have been RMA'ed....and the difference between what I paid and HD's is $125. Net saving...$300. I'm ok with it

[ForcedFirebird]

HD=$25ea
Febi = ~$20ea

Total savings on a complete set is ~$60

I also don't hesitate to use OEM used rockers upon inspection. Realistically you should use the same rocker on the same lobe once they have been in a running engine. They do break in "together" for sure, and your new cam will ted to wear to the current state of the rockers.

When rebuilding I keep the rocker matched to the lobes if the used cam is going back in.

[jeffnhiscars]

I paid $14.62@ for the Febis. I'll let you do the math :)

Again I agree...new cam new rockers. I stepped up by buying an IE 272 (tips hat to Andrew) cause I needed a cam and will sleep ok even with the risk of incongruous wear patterns. I still think the cam will outlast me so it will be someone else's problem :)