1.3 Motronic Up-Grade & 2.7i How To

[lennon]

ok jack pie so maybe everyone out there dosent have hook ups for a cheap turbo set up to stay under your...$500 m50 swap price tag, which is way unpractical but, if thats what you say. im going to turbo my car with the m20 in it...and i know the 2.7 stroker is stupid if your car is a i already but my crank was fucked from lack of oil(via lack of drain plug from a dumb bezzy) and i had a connection to a cheap eta lower end so thats why i did it vs leaving the i an i...no one really cares if you have a eta because all your doing is bashing on them for wanting more on a budget anyways if we could all do 24v swaps im sure we would but we dont all have $500 24v swaps...which reminds me how good can a $500 dollar 24v really be? no rebuild just throw it in right??? or its pre-rebuilt right thats what the crazy bastard told you as you picked it up?

who the fuck is jack pie?

:roll:
you obviously misunderstood everything ive said and dont know shit about these motors (or motors period?). you plan on piecing together this 2.7i with a full rebuild for 500 bucks or less? a 24v can be rebuilt for the basically the same $$$ as a 12v, ask me how i know. or are you planning on boosting this e block i head without a rebuild? no rebuild just throw it in and boost it, right??? i was never even talking about building a motor for boost. thats a whole other can of worms. but "building" a turbo setup (or N/A) with a cheap ass budget is retarded. thats why im "bashing" on people trying to make their eta motors super "strokers" with junkyard funds. if people want a good motor on a budget (no rebuilds, custom shit, etc) then they should have gotten a car with an m20b25 to start with, or get one now, or get an m50. you can throw either one in there without a rebuild, atleast a 24v is 10 years newer i guess. you cant magically have 200+ fully rebuilt horsepower for 500 bucks with these motors. my issue is the i head on e block isnt even a good setup and for the cost of parts/time you spent, you could get a whole m20b25 or probably an m50. thats all there is to it. what you do with the motors is irrelevant.

its hard to get clear points across on the internet and i dont really care anyways. plus i dont know where to start with all the ignorance.

and about your other post, you think im angry because i didnt put an i head on my e? ive got a fucking 731 head running 1.3 motronic with an i cam, you think i just did the quickest easiest thing? people have known about the i head on e block for 20 years, you think i didnt know? fuck off dude go turbo your 2.7i concoction and come back with dyno numbers or even a picture of it completed. oh and a parts list... im sure thatll be hilarious.

[nando]

if you want to build a 3 liter, all you can use from the eta is the block. you need an S52 or M54 crank for the larger stroke. Another alternative is the M52 crank which would give you 2.9 liters with an 85mm bore or 3.0 with an 86mm bore. there's also the S50 crank but they only made those for one year, M52 or S52 would be easier to find.

the 284 is a good choice for a street motor. and you're likely going to want custom pistons for this, unless you want to use some wacky combination of OEM pistons/rods and deck the block to make it work with a good CR. JE is a good choice for a decent price and they have the correct profile for the 885 combustion chamber.

[nando]

you plan on piecing together this 2.7i with a full rebuild for 500 bucks or less? a 24v can be rebuilt for the basically the same $$$ as a 12v, ask me how i know.

Uhm, how do you know?

there is no way a 24v rebuild is as cheap as an M20. For one, there are twice as many parts in the head to replace. The bottom end, sure, they are almost exactly the same. But replacing the valves, guides, lifters, springs, keepers, etc. is going to cost you twice as much, just because there are twice as many parts.

[lennon]

Uhm, how do you know?

there is no way a 24v rebuild is as cheap as an M20. For one, there are twice as many parts in the head to replace. The bottom end, sure, they are almost exactly the same. But replacing the valves, guides, lifters, springs, keepers, etc. is going to cost you twice as much, just because there are twice as many parts.

i know because ive rebuilt an m20 head and im rebuilding an s50 head right now. youre right about that, its not quite true that theyre the same price. i was mostly thinking about the bottom end, gasket sets, sensors, etc. the head will cost more because it is twin cam. that wasnt really my point anyway. point is things that are better cost money, and not to expect great things from something you do for free or close to it. no one doing this e+i head combo is doing any rebuild anyway, if they were it should be with a better setup than that. m20b25 is the budget upgrade for eta people. or chip and 3.25lsd rear end. the i head on e block would never be worth it to me, even if it was free and i didnt have to do the work. i dont wanna argue with any of these people though. i just disagree so much! ill just stay outta this thread:)

[jmc1590]

Ok, I've stayed out of this long enough. I just did an e2i on a 528e (12/86) with a non-seta block. Total cost, probably around $300 - $400. Sure I could have found a B25, but not around here, and not for that amount. Plus, the additional costs to pull the entire engine would have added another $100.

So I have a low compression 2.7i. Ok, it feels good. Much better than my eta ever did. It revs higher. Which doesn't necessarily mean more power, but I can see an advantage when I auto-X it again. (1st to 2nd, that's all folks!) And I learned a lot. About Motronic 1.0 and 1.3. I think I could probably recite the ETM in my sleep if need be. And there is something about starting into a job that you're not sure if you can complete that when finished is a wonderful thing.

And I've dyno'ed it. Which confirms my thoughts, it gained power. Not a ton, but enough.


131 HP / 150 Tq - which is a far cry better than my eta was ever capable of producing. And considering what I learned from the dyno, (the flat spot after 4600), a little tuning can improve upon these numbers a bunch.

While it's not perfect, and not "huge" numbers, it's drivable. And fun. And no longer requires downshifting when trying to crusie up a steep hill.

Your results may vary, but I think it's a blast!

[mikegar]

who the fuck is jack pie?

:roll:
you obviously misunderstood everything ive said and dont know shit about these motors (or motors period?). you plan on piecing together this 2.7i with a full rebuild for 500 bucks or less? a 24v can be rebuilt for the basically the same $$$ as a 12v, ask me how i know. or are you planning on boosting this e block i head without a rebuild? no rebuild just throw it in and boost it, right??? i was never even talking about building a motor for boost. thats a whole other can of worms. but "building" a turbo setup (or N/A) with a cheap ass budget is retarded. thats why im "bashing" on people trying to make their eta motors super "strokers" with junkyard funds. if people want a good motor on a budget (no rebuilds, custom shit, etc) then they should have gotten a car with an m20b25 to start with, or get one now, or get an m50. you can throw either one in there without a rebuild, atleast a 24v is 10 years newer i guess. you cant magically have 200+ fully rebuilt horsepower for 500 bucks with these motors. my issue is the i head on e block isnt even a good setup and for the cost of parts/time you spent, you could get a whole m20b25 or probably an m50. thats all there is to it. what you do with the motors is irrelevant.

its hard to get clear points across on the internet and i dont really care anyways. plus i dont know where to start with all the ignorance.

and about your other post, you think im angry because i didnt put an i head on my e? ive got a fucking 731 head running 1.3 motronic with an i cam, you think i just did the quickest easiest thing? people have known about the i head on e block for 20 years, you think i didnt know? fuck off dude go turbo your 2.7i concoction and come back with dyno numbers or even a picture of it completed. oh and a parts list... im sure thatll be hilarious.

so what about the eta guy that just wants an improved motor untill he can gain the funds and collect the parts for a 24v or big 6 swap? should he go hunting for a 731 head and go for a complete rebuild? or should he cheap out and just go with the i head with electronics and transfer the ammount of money he would have spent on the proper head and rebuild to his dream of 24v or big six? to me its a no brainer, a temp motor deff should be built on a junk yard budget.

[ikkitousen]

...the 284 is a good choice for a street motor. and you're likely going to want custom pistons for this, unless you want to use some wacky combination of OEM pistons/rods and deck the block to make it work with a good CR. JE is a good choice for a decent price and they have the correct profile for the 885 combustion chamber.

Nando, could I get you to elaborate on this a bit more? A good CR? JE a good choice?
I was leaning toward the OEM parts route based on what I had and dont have access to a lot of custom services in my area and what not so off the shelf is more my style. Like I said, Im not looking for wild, just like jmc1590 said:

...there is something about starting into a job that you're not sure if you can complete that when finished is a wonderful thing...
a far cry better than my eta was ever capable of producing. And considering what I learned from the dyno, (the flat spot after 4600), a little tuning can improve upon these numbers a bunch.

While it's not perfect, and not "huge" numbers, it's drivable. And fun. And no longer requires downshifting when trying to crusie up a steep hill.

Your results may vary, but I think it's a blast! .

------------------------------------------------------
DAMN PROJECTS ARE WHERE ITS AT!!!

[hotballs]

The only important hole to remember drilling on the 200 head is the one in center where the oil feed hole is cut into the head. The I cam only has one oil tranfer port cut into it. If you look at the I cam as compared to the e you will see what I'm talking about and it should make better sense.

Thanks for answering my question,

As for the arguing, I don't know why someone would care what another person decides or chooses to do to his car. This isn't some religion or something. Honestly I bought an eta for $500 and i swap parts for another $200. I like turning wrenches and if it will change the power of the car by 20-30%, I don't see how that is not considered something fun to do. No one here is claiming a budget 2.7i m20 swap is the end all power maker. It's just something cheap, easily available, obtainable with positive results.

Let's just keep the thread informative, it has been very helpful up until page 12 or so.

[slo325i]

I'm about to start this swap now. When said to replace the crank pulley, do i need to replace the whole crank vibration/dampner or just the pulley in front of the dampner??

Justin

[mooseheadm5]

Replace the damper that is held on by 6 bolts. The other pulley which drives the PS and AC is the same for both cars, but it has to come off to get the harmonic balancer off, and all that crap has to come off to get to the T-belt.

[NC325iC]

so, im swapping the stroker into an older car and i want to clarify this

C101=Round (i have this one)
no special wiring M1.3 harness is plug and play with body harness

C101=Square
special wiring required to mate engine harness to body harness


Correct?

[kenika65]

Well I guess I need to clarify some stuff better!


Round, Square... it sounds like we are on a space shuttle...

[kenika65]

Thank you for reminding us of why we all are doing this to our 2.7...

Its been a few pages since I have seen some positive info arise...

Please if you want a 24v go to the 24v section.

If you have questions please click on every link in my OP and read closely and don't forget to search.

If you really have a question please PM me.

And to now clarify, My 2.7i is an eta block with eta head, i cams, and everything connected to it is from an i motor.. every sensor.. everything bolt. it is practically an i but with a 2.7 bottom end with eta pistons and head.

LOL the entire car is now an i, the flywheel back is from an i car, exhaust, gastank and fuel system...

The only difference in my motor and an i under the hood would be that I still use the eta coolant system, which can be changed to an i if needed.

If has over 10k on the set up never leaked a drop.

I don't regret anything about it and am letting the 2.5 block just sit on the ground in the shop wishing it was a 2.7

I dont think it could have been done any easier or cheper it is like doing maintinance on your engine and when you put it back together just use i parts... simple as that. :hitler:

[Brian 89 325i]

Ok, ill be doing the 1.3 upgrade this weekend. I have an 89 parts car that Im pulling all of my stuff from. My car is an 87. My question is this, will the wiring harness work or will I need an 87 "i" harness? Most likely, ill be getting a 731 head in the near future to complete my 327i, because having to be *that* careful of my revs will probably get to me soon enough.

Thanks

[Brian 89 325i]

Bump for a good thread and good info