The semi-Comprehensive M60b40 into E30 swap Q&A

[Garageaholic]

My m52 Sachs Sport clutch is a solid hub. Looks like I'm seriously striking out with my flywheel/clutch setup. First the dual mass flywheel wouldn't work, now I find out my clutch disc shouldn't be used with my single mass flywheel. Guess I learned my lesson, just do it right the first time.

Yeah i figured that out
when replacing my wifes clutch in her 97 328i (m52). Dual mass with solid 240mm clutch disc.

You would get extremely annoyed in a short period of time by the chatter. That's how I ended up with the good deal I got on my UUC flywheel... M5 owner bought it and used it with the OEM non-sprung disc... he had it in for bout 6 months and went back to the dual mass, because of the chatter.

And Justin's right about the take-up... that is strictly reliant on the disc and PP combination...

Garey

So I am now thinking e39 m5 ltw flywheel (240mm obd2), but I need. to find a 240mm spring hub clutch disc that will fit the input splines of the 6spd tranny...

Garey I know you mentioned the e34 M5 spring hub clutch kit, which is kinda pricy at $460bmaparts.com, but it likely not fit the input splines of the 6speed tranny.

[bmwmech1]

So I am now thinking e39 m5 ltw flywheel (240mm obd2), but I need. to find a 240mm spring hub clutch disc that will fit the input splines of the 6spd tranny...

Garey I know you mentioned the e34 M5 spring hub clutch kit, which is kinda pricy at $460bmaparts.com, but it likely not fit the input splines of the 6speed tranny.

No, it won't fit the 6 speed... you need to look for 240mm high performance, sprung hub clutches for the E39 540i or E39 M5. Both of those cars only had the 6 speed behind the V8 and they use the correct 240mm diameter clutch disc. Short of that, you can step up to the 265mm, E34 style flywheel and clutch setup, or the E31 650CSI sized, 280mm ultimate V8 flywheel and clutch setup. Both of those sizes only support the 6 speed transmission. I had a 280mm lightweight flywheel and clutch setup for sale a while back, but it has long since sold. Maybe check Bfc classifieds for anyone selling these setups...

Garey

[JGood]

I'm using the SPEC StageIII, which is a 6 puck, sprung hub setup with carbon graphite facing, so it's aggressive, but not neck snapping and take-up is still streetable... just FYI...

Garey

Do you already have this clutch? The HPF website says "Cars with dual mass flywheel will come with unsprung disc." under the description for the Spec Stage III.

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/partdetails/SPEC/Clutch/Clutch_Kits/Euro_Stage_3/7258

If I buy one more clutch part that doesn't work, I'm going to light my car on fire. So I just want to be sure :D

[Garageaholic]

No, it won't fit the 6 speed... you need to look for 240mm high performance, sprung hub clutches for the E39 540i or E39 M5. Both of those cars only had the 6 speed behind the V8 and they use the correct 240mm diameter clutch disc. Short of that, you can step up to the 265mm, E34 style flywheel and clutch setup, or the E31 650CSI sized, 280mm ultimate V8 flywheel and clutch setup. Both of those sizes only support the 6 speed transmission. I had a 280mm lightweight flywheel and clutch setup for sale a while back, but it has long since sold. Maybe check Bfc classifieds for anyone selling these setups...

Garey

Garey,

Thanks!!! I think I want to stick with the 240mm setup, so I'll go with a sprung hub clutch kit for E39 540i or M5.

So the only difference between the JBR (or UUC for that matter) Lightweight flywheels between the E34 and the E39 540i's is the fact that there is an ignition trigger on the flywheel for M62's as opposed to the M60's where it is already on the front crankshaft balancer? I assume that the difference is attributed to OBD II in the M62's.....

With that being said, anybody know of any good aftermarket performance spring hub clutches for E39 M5 or 540i??


EDIT: Looks like JGood's latest post affirms that. There looks to be tons of E39 540i & M5 spring hub clutch kits.....Unfortunately, they're pricey...

[Garageaholic]

M60 Swap 6 Speed Options with Lightweight Flywheel & Spring Hub Clutch

Requirements:

1. M60 Engine
2. 6 Speed Transmission
3. Lightweight Flywheel
4. Sprung Hub Clutch (Lower Gear Chatter) - Daily Driver Swap.
5. Needs to handle torque

Options:

• E34 540i Lightweight Setup - 265mm
  NO - Cannot go E34 540i because the diameter is 265mm and a sprung hub clutch is not offered aftermarket.
• Can go 650 or 850ci - 280mm
  NO - very rare and hard to find (unless sold by someone like Garey when Frank decided not to go that route and is now pissed for not taking Garey up on the offer, LOL)
• E39 540i or M5 240mm
  MAYBE - Does not violate any of my requirements, except for handling torque and spring hub clutches. Are they available?

yes

E39 540i or M5 JBR Lightweight Flywheel & Clutch Setup.
Flywheel
Clutch Kit
Cost: $800 + $664 = $1464

OR

E39 540i or M5 UUC Clutch/Flywheel Complete Setup
Clutch/Flywheel
Cost: $1599 including hardware

Either way it's pretty pricey unless you get one secondhand on the forums.
I refuse to buy Ebay crap.

Are there any other avenues for getting a performance sprung hub clutch that can handle the M60 power requirements without slippage?

Last question - Are there any stackup issues with using this setup?

[mkcman17]

not trying to turn this into a FS thread, but my motor is actually an 11/95 m60, not an m62. doh. i figured all e38s came with an m62 until i actually took the VC off.

[Vtec?lol]

So I've scrolled through this entire thread and many others. I'm looking for info on a m62 swap and not just an m60.

I'd like to keep OBDII Or just get it eliminated by a chip or tune.

Any inputs anywhere

[bmwmech1]

So I've scrolled through this entire thread and many others. I'm looking for info on a m62 swap and not just an m60.

I'd like to keep OBDII Or just get it eliminated by a chip or tune.

Any inputs anywhere

Okay, a few questions for you to help determine what info you are looking for...

1. Do you know the differences between the motors and what year vehicle they each came in? This is relevant to the engine management and why it works well in a specific vehicle.

2. Do you want it to be OBDII? Or not? A chip or a tune does not have anything to do with it being OBDII and it cannot be eliminated by either.

I'm not sure you are asking the right questions, here... The big reason to use engines from similar generation vehicles is because it simplifies the swap, thereby giving you a much greater chance of completing it and enjoying it. If you're a little masochistic, then by all means, dive in with both feet to a non-similar swap and get ready to loose some hair, lol.

To assuage your concerns, an M60B40 and an M62B44 are in essence the same motor, with a different bore. An M62B44TU is the same bottom end with different heads, cams, timing assembly, intake and engine management. A TU is OBDII and uses CAN-Bus to communicate between the different modules in the vehicle. An E30 is not a CAN-Bus vehicle. An M60/62 uses a similar management system as what the M20 uses, so integration is much simpler.

Asking questions is the only way to learn, so by all means, ask more questions, do more research, etc. I think the M60/62, OBDI is the better chioce, for many reasons,all of which have been covered, but that choice is yours. Keep reading, though... and ask more questions...:)

Garey

[Vtec?lol]

I mean't ews delete. Thanks for your help!
the engine is out of a 03 540i.
Simplicity isn't my goal.
My next question is, What all do i take from this donor car?
He pretty much told me to take all I want for 1800 lol

[Jean]

03 540i is M62TU...so bottom end stuff. The lower timing cover is also going to need to be swapped as it's for a water cooled alternator that I doubt you'll want to run....

[bmwmech1]

I mean't ews delete. Thanks for your help!
the engine is out of a 03 540i.
Simplicity isn't my goal.
My next question is, What all do i take from this donor car?
He pretty much told me to take all I want for 1800 lol

I would be cautious about spending $1800 on just the motor... You could honestly source the motor, trans and more swap stuff for $1800. That being said, you need the motor, harness/DME/keys and accelerator assembly, if you are staying OBDII. That's not a lot of stuff for $1800... I would be inclined to look elsewhere or talk him down from that price. Somewhere around $800 to $1000 is the going rate...

Garey

[Vtec?lol]

Thanks guys. and Hell no I don't want to run a water cooled alternator. That sounds horrible

and sorry I wasn't clear.
$1800 gets me:
Engine + all accs.
6speed trans + New clutch
DME
All wiring that's related to the engine/trans/dme
front drive shaft
Complete borla cat back
and he said anything else that may be ralated to what I'm trying to do.

as for the twist. The motor is out of an 03' but it's swapped into a 97' 540i

Claimed it was built by Bavarian Motorsports out here in dallas and makes 440hp at the crank.

I'm going to go and inspect it today and if all is well it'll be pulled this weekend.
Car was mashed against a sidewall breaking the front CA and the rear axle on the pass. side.

Are there any ways to obviously distinguish the two?
Once again, the motor is in a 97 so I'm guessing some of this stuff could've already been done.

[Vtec?lol]

I'm on my way to see it, I'll post pics.

[Vtec?lol]

anyway of telling what it is by these pics?

[Jean]

Well, the m62tu has electronic tb w/o the idle control valve like on the m60 and m62b44. Also notice fuel rail has two lines, and does not have a release valve, does not look like m62tu.

Check if it's got the water cooled alternator, that would be a TU...it could be that they've converted the TU to non TU config with the wiring/fuel rail/sensor swap but who fucking knows what they did. I can't tell if it's got vanos solenoids, that would be an easy way to tell what kind of heads it's running....

You need to ask more questions or look at it closely.

Also, no way 440hp even at the crank.