Subframe issues

[hasa]

It would be nice to know some history of this car. Subframe bolts do not just disappear randomly. If it has hitted some obstacle on road and bolts have been sheared of, then likely whole car is toast. If it is just that some mechanic has forgot the bolts, then it might be fairly easy repair.

[rturbo 930]

If the car hit something hard enough to shear all four bolts off the subframe, I think we'd see some deformation around where the subframe bolts to the frame, but I don't see any at all. The frame rails look perfect. Also, I would expect to see some sort of remain of a bolt in at least one of the holes, but, although we don't really have good enough photos to know for sure, I don't see that either. It looks like the subframe is doweled to the frame on the sway bar side, so I also wouldn't really expect it to be able to shear very easily, and the bolt is probably stronger than the dowel. Lastly, the fact that it seems like the bolts are gone on both sides makes me think someone probably just didn't put the bolts in. Chances of an impact shearing every bolt holding the subframe in, but leaving both the subframe, and the frame rails it bolts to without any sign of damage are basically zero. Has OP confirmed that there are actually broken bolts in the frame rails, or are they just missing? Not hard to just jack the car up and look at it.

[82eye]

If the car hit something hard enough to shear all four bolts off the subframe, I think we'd see some deformation around where the subframe bolts to the frame, but I don't see any at all. The frame rails look perfect. Also, I would expect to see some sort of remain of a bolt in at least one of the holes, but, although we don't really have good enough photos to know for sure, I don't see that either. It looks like the subframe is doweled to the frame on the sway bar side, so I also wouldn't really expect it to be able to shear very easily, and the bolt is probably stronger than the dowel. Lastly, the fact that it seems like the bolts are gone on both sides makes me think someone probably just didn't put the bolts in. Chances of an impact shearing every bolt holding the subframe in, but leaving both the subframe, and the frame rails it bolts to without any sign of damage are basically zero. Has OP confirmed that there are actually broken bolts in the frame rails, or are they just missing? Not hard to just jack the car up and look at it.

how could the kid have driven it with no bolts in the sub ? OP stated his kid took it out and returned it this way. something happened on that drive.

[manicho]

No bent frame. No damage to wheels or front lip.

[rturbo 930]

how could the kid have driven it with no bolts in the sub ? OP stated his kid took it out and returned it this way. something happened on that drive.

I don't see anything about his kid in the posts in here. OP took it in for the bushings to be changed and presumably when they put it up in the air, the subframe was hanging down. The subframe has dowels that locate in frame rail, and with the weight of the car on it, it was probably never a problem.

[hasa]

Probably the shop dropped the subframe, decided not to do the bushing job for some reason and returned car like that claiming that subframe was like that before coming in to the shop... I would not be too surprised.

[82eye]

I don't see anything about his kid in the posts in here. OP took it in for the bushings to be changed and presumably when they put it up in the air, the subframe was hanging down. The subframe has dowels that locate in frame rail, and with the weight of the car on it, it was probably never a problem.

was in a separate post / thread. looks like he deleted it. there's info missing from this thread.

edit : anyone ever heard of sub bolts falling from the car ? i never have. they sheared or were removed by the shop. should be no issue if they were removed. won't require a shop at all.

[rturbo 930]

My first guess would be that a lazy or forgetful previous owner was doing some work and just never put them back in. For a shop to remove them for a job, then decide not to do the job, and also not put them back in would be spectacularly lazy. But I suppose there's a reason there's a saying, "If you want it done right, you do it yourself."

[82eye]

My first guess would be that a lazy or forgetful previous owner was doing some work and just never put them back in. For a shop to remove them for a job, then decide not to do the job, and also not put them back in would be spectacularly lazy. But I suppose there's a reason there's a saying, "If you want it done right, you do it yourself."

here it is illegal. i'm sure it is there as well. if work is refused the car has to be returned in the exact same shape it was brought in or the shop is liable. that's why i'm at a wtf? on this.

edit : also the shop would be liable if someone tried to drive it away in that shape. would have to be taken on a hook.

[digger]

Probably the shop dropped the subframe, decided not to do the bushing job for some reason and returned car like that claiming that subframe was like that before coming in to the shop... I would not be too surprised.

this, the shop was going to start work maybe removing CA and the straw that broke the camels back

[TobyB]

Nah, the alignment sleeves are still there, and look intact. If it'd sheared, they'd be smeared, if not totally removed.
But I agree, that's about all that'd explain this sorta thing.

There's also not enough rust there for them to have rusted through at the chassis.
So either foul play, something the OP doesn't know about or hasn't disclosed, or aliens.

Because this isn't adding up.

And that much rust? Looks like a typical 5 winter- old NorthEast 1989 car to me.

t