H&R Race springs spring pad questions...

[digger]

Here's how I made the adjusters:

https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/forum/general-forums/members-rides/the-project-forum/10016271-stinky-the-new-dd-is-now-the-weekend-car?p=10017511#post10017511

I didn't explain how I welded them up, but i followed Garagistic's writeup. Basically, assemble the brackets with the bolts in the stock hole. Adjust the subframe so it's level. Turn the bolts to be opposite of what you want to achieve: if you want less camber, turn the bolts to be at most camber position so they can rotate to less camber once slotted. Rotate the adjuster brackets so they're level. Weld on the adjusters. Remove the bolts. Use a dremel to open up the hole into a slot that matched the adjuster brackets.

I didn't get an alignment ahead of time, so I have no idea how much toe I had based on the shock/spring combo. I also haven't had an alignment in a long time to know what I ended up with. Max reduction in camber left a little negative camber, pretty much perfect. I think I originally went with toe in the middle, which didn't take out enough toe. I think I cut and re-welded for toe to take out the max from the starting position, this left a little more toe in than i'd like. It can be twitchy at highway speeds and in the rain, it also burns through rear tires, but evenly!

Thanks. I am going to aim for about 1.0mm toe each side (supposed to improve stability c.f. zero toe or a bit toe out) and maybe 1 degree neg camber (improve inside edge tyre life), i hope my alignment shop gave good numbers and that the bushes werent flogged out enough to affect the validity of measurements.

[McGyver]

i am interested to hear what you started with, how you setup/welded them and what didnt work out as i am embarking on this.

The eccentric bolts have about +/-3 mm of adjustment. +/-3 mm over the 330 mm approx dimension is ~+/-0.5 degree.

so i set mine the toe to the middle and i set the camber so that it can only be reduced only

Here's how I made the adjusters:

https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/forum/general-forums/members-rides/the-project-forum/10016271-stinky-the-new-dd-is-now-the-weekend-car?p=10017511#post10017511

I didn't explain how I welded them up, but i followed Garagistic's writeup. Basically, assemble the brackets with the bolts in the stock hole. Adjust the subframe so it's level. Turn the bolts to be opposite of what you want to achieve: if you want less camber, turn the bolts to be at most camber position so they can rotate to less camber once slotted. Rotate the adjuster brackets so they're level. Weld on the adjusters. Remove the bolts. Use a dremel to open up the hole into a slot that matched the adjuster brackets.

I didn't get an alignment ahead of time, so I have no idea how much toe I had based on the shock/spring combo. I also haven't had an alignment in a long time to know what I ended up with. Max reduction in camber left a little negative camber, pretty much perfect. I think I originally went with toe in the middle, which didn't take out enough toe. I think I cut and re-welded for toe to take out the max from the starting position, this left a little more toe in than i'd like. It can be twitchy at highway speeds and in the rain, it also burns through rear tires, but evenly!

[digger]

This really is the issue. I made my own camber/toe adjuster brackets to use e39 eccentric bolts. I thought I had a good idea of my alignment specs ahead of time, but my first attempt didn't allow for enough correction. I cut them off and tried again, which got my camber to a really good spot, but I've still got too much toe, which makes the car feel twitchy. I plan to try again when I swap in the new engine.

i am interested to hear what you started with, how you setup/welded them and what didnt work out as i am embarking on this.

The eccentric bolts have about +/-3 mm of adjustment. +/-3 mm over the 330 mm approx dimension is ~+/-0.5 degree.

so i set mine the toe to the middle and i set the camber so that it can only be reduced only

[McGyver]

I'm a big fan of the subframe risers. Maybe something is wrong with me/my car, but my wear was never bad on H&R Race even before subframe risers. Not a fan of the common adjustable subframe stuff due to slip and how many people seem to weld them on in a way that doesn't allow enough adjustment.

This really is the issue. I made my own camber/toe adjuster brackets to use e39 eccentric bolts. I thought I had a good idea of my alignment specs ahead of time, but my first attempt didn't allow for enough correction. I cut them off and tried again, which got my camber to a really good spot, but I've still got too much toe, which makes the car feel twitchy. I plan to try again when I swap in the new engine.

[Northern]

i run sports and they are hard as rocks. i have matched billies with them which is a stiffer shock too. the konis ride a little softer. even the sport springs work out to a bigger drop than most realize when looking at a stock height car.

skid plates often take out the rad support requiring body work on the car if they take a hit. the welded skids won't create the the same problems if you get a rock.

edit: on race you are definitely gonna run into camber issues on the back. consider dropping the sub and welding in the subframe adjustment kit.

Agree with the high pressure gas billies making the car ride stiffer. I think Konis and H&R Race should be a good combo, but I always tried to get the front lower and would bottom out my H&R Race setup. As long as OP is not trying to be 2010-era hellaflush, he should be fine.

I'm also somewhat anti-skidplate... I ran raised motor mounts and never blew up an oil pan. Skidplate will definitely add some protection, but I think it also creates a feedback loop where it makes the lowest spot of the car lower -> you hit more stuff -> you are thankful you have a skidplate because "look at all it protected me from"

I'm a big fan of the subframe risers. Maybe something is wrong with me/my car, but my wear was never bad on H&R Race even before subframe risers. Not a fan of the common adjustable subframe stuff due to slip and how many people seem to weld them on in a way that doesn't allow enough adjustment.

[MrBurgundy]

I will add that when I raised the rear 5mm my - camber wear is no were near as bad

I've hear very mixed reviews about camber adjusters on the rear sub frame.

If they were decent reviews, def work it IMO, but unfortunately not.

10 dollar rubber pads and 15 minutes sounds a lot better than dropping the rear sub frame

[82eye]

I was between Race, Super Sport, and Sport. I read a ton of what people thought about each, and in the end it seemed like many people thought race were great for a street car and that the sports and especially the Super Sports were a bit soft and not much of an improvement over stock.

I guess I'll find out.... worst case I'll swap them out later on for sports or Super Sports.

i run sports and they are hard as rocks. i have matched billies with them which is a stiffer shock too. the konis ride a little softer. even the sport springs work out to a bigger drop than most realize when looking at a stock height car.

I am most likely gonna do that. I'm hoping not to weld one in though. I looked a bit but haven't found much out there other than the weld in one. Any links to decent skid plates is appreciated.

skid plates often take out the rad support requiring body work on the car if they take a hit. the welded skids won't create the the same problems if you get a rock.

edit: on race you are definitely gonna run into camber issues on the back. consider dropping the sub and welding in the subframe adjustment kit.

[Vincent Vangool]

If you're going lower, I suggest a skid plate. I have a red46 and it does a great job of protecting against little stuff like rocks or light-medium impacts. I split my oil pan on a massive impact, but I can't really fault the skid plate for that. The weld-in plates may be more substantial protection, but I've never tried that route.

I am most likely gonna do that. I'm hoping not to weld one in though. I looked a bit but haven't found much out there other than the weld in one. Any links to decent skid plates is appreciated.

[Vincent Vangool]

i agree. some cars seem more excessive than others too. for a street car i'd have gone with sport suspension over race.

I was between Race, Super Sport, and Sport. I read a ton of what people thought about each, and in the end it seemed like many people thought race were great for a street car and that the sports and especially the Super Sports were a bit soft and not much of an improvement over stock.

I guess I'll find out.... worst case I'll swap them out later on for sports or Super Sports.

[Vincent Vangool]

H&R recommends rear camber correction for the Race springs since they are so low. This means installing camber/toe adjustments on your rear subframe. Another way is to simply install thicker spring pads (or stack them) to raise the rear, not only for looks but to dial out some of that excessive negative camber.

I had written H&R awhile back and asked this question....

"The Real Question I am wondering is: With either of these set ups: Race/ Koni or Super Sport/Koni, Would either need the 12mm raised subframe for the excessive camber created by lowering the car? They offer the 12MM raised subframe bushings for extremely lowered cars. Do either of these fit in that category? My subframe bushings are the original ones, so prob swapping those out as well and want to get the right ones: stock height vs 12mm raise."

Their answer was...

"Since the drop is past 2” on the race springs, it’s entirely possible you’ll need other supporting mods for a proper alignment. From my experience, I haven’t heard of anyone needing that, but we just don’t know for sure."

Seems that in my communications, I asked the question again...

"But for me the real question is what bushings height do I need? and it seems that the stock height still works with at least the sports and the SS and prob the Race? Do you know if the SPEC E30 guys use the 12MM raised subframe bushings as they all rune the race springs."

They responded

"As for the bushings choice; I don’t believe you’re going to need the 12mm risers. None of my colleagues (some being previous E30 owners) have not seen these be a necessity while installing our springs."

[82eye]

H&R recommends rear camber correction for the Race springs since they are so low. This means either install camber/toe adjustments on your rear subframe. Another way is to simply install thicker spring pads (or stack them) to raise the rear, not only for looks but to dial out some of that excessive negative camber.

i agree. some cars seem more excessive than others too. for a street car i'd have gone with sport suspension over race.

[reelizmpro]

Thank you sir. So I should just use the stock pads for now. Let it settle, then maybe later on raise the rear if needed. I was thinking about putting the Condor kit in it now, but can wait to see how it settles as well I am in it for the handling, not the looks.

Are these something I should consider doing to strengthen the shock towers....

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-strut-tower-reinforcement-plate-front-e36-z3-31312489795?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAYnJpZBExZkR2c Wg3SjM4Z3NNMlJqQ3NydGMGYXBwX2lkEDIyMjAzOTE3ODgyMDA 4OTIAAR41Vv-UWjWYmxLuBW0u21E7ah5eaYW1b3UlIdBXn7MiP3OviOTrsE7wu WLHgw_aem_nIoYdwZf4QlMIgapVg-nQQ

Going to be ordering everything on Monday, so any guidance is appreciated.

H&R recommends rear camber correction for the Race springs since they are so low. This means installing camber/toe adjustments on your rear subframe. Another way is to simply install thicker spring pads (or stack them) to raise the rear, not only for looks but to dial out some of that excessive negative camber.

[Vincent Vangool]

Lots of places make them, sometimes included with the RSMs already (especially for anything that can accomodate 12mm shock.)

https://www.iemotorsport.com/product/rear-shock-tower-reinforcement-e30-e36/

Thanks, I already have the RSM plates.

[Northern]

Lots of places make them, sometimes included with the RSMs already (especially for anything that can accomodate 12mm shock.)

https://www.iemotorsport.com/product/rear-shock-tower-reinforcement-e30-e36/

[Northern]

I don't know if those reinforcement plates fit E30 strut towers or only E36, but I think only E36.

Rear reinforcement plates might come with the RSMs