M42 Question: Retroactively making top of timing cover coplanar with head…

[s-thetikz]

While doing my vcg, i noticed that the timing cover doesn’t sit flush with the head, but this was the way it was before so i didn’t think much of it, but ran into a thread where bmwman91 pointed out the gasketless vcg trick to get them aligned.

my car is still leaking oil (albeit less than before) from the butt joint area of the right side of the car.

is it possible for me to simply loosen the top timing cover, and shift it down (by way of thermostat housing or vcg trick)?

if so, can someone give me a safe procedure for doing this (loosening which bolts first?)

given that the leak is all coming from the butt joint area, is it safe to assume that the front facing horizontal gasket is sealed? should i just stuff in some rtv in the butt joint and call it a day?

of does everything need to come apart?

thank you all!

[bmwman91]

It is ideal to have it flush, but not 100% required if you use some silicone RTV up top where the VCG meets the misaligned cover. I typically use a SMALL amount of RTV there even when it is flush since there is usually a tiny gap at the top of the paper timing cover gasket, and a couple of dabs in the back where the semicircular parts are behind the cams.

I am assuming that your leak is coming from the lower butt joint between the profile gaskets where the upper cover ends? It is a tough one to stop, and you need to remove the cover to do it. Simply squishing the cover down harder won't help. It requires RTV to be put into the interface between both profile gasket ends as well as the little gaps where the TC cover gaskets end. At this point, I might just stop using the paper gaskets entirely and just use RTV. If you go that route, be very sparing with it since it does not take a lot. It isn't likely to hurt anything, but you still want to avoid chunks clogging up the oil pump inlet screen.

Trying to apply RTV to the outside of the butt joint area is not likely to work. You need to completely degrease the surfaces, which is hard because oil will be weeping out of the gap in the butt joint. You can give it a shot, but it'll probably be leaking again in a week or two.

[s-thetikz]

It is ideal to have it flush, but not 100% required if you use some silicone RTV up top where the VCG meets the misaligned cover. I typically use a SMALL amount of RTV there even when it is flush since there is usually a tiny gap at the top of the paper timing cover gasket, and a couple of dabs in the back where the semicircular parts are behind the cams.

did follow these directions when doing the VCG-- VCG looks great so far

I am assuming that your leak is coming from the lower butt joint between the profile gaskets where the upper cover ends? It is a tough one to stop, and you need to remove the cover to do it.

yes, that was a definite spot of leakage, which i 'patched'. following day, same spot of oil on the floor but no sign of leakage from that specific spot, which leads me to conclude that it's just coming out elsewhere.

Trying to apply RTV to the outside of the butt joint area is not likely to work. You need to completely degrease the surfaces, which is hard because oil will be weeping out of the gap in the butt joint. You can give it a shot, but it'll probably be leaking again in a week or two.

i'd opt for just putting in the profile gasket, but parts accessibility requires about a month of premeditation in south korea :(

people do not have old cars / work on old cars here for the most part, so parts must be imported from another country (BMW dealership here does not have a 'parts department') nor are there any autozones.

the car seems far more 'stable' after patching. perhaps a vacuum leak plugged?

will report back on spillage when i have it jacked up again later today.

many thanks from this side of da pond~

[bmwman91]

Interesting...sounds somewhat like what I recall hearing from friends I visited in Hong Kong. "Working on cars" is a much more niche thing it seems.

How fresh if your oil filter housing gasket & o-ring? The o-ring in particular is notorious for leaking badly, and the oil that gets out can make its way clear across the front of the engine to look like a leak from somewhere else.

[s-thetikz]

How fresh if your oil filter housing gasket & o-ring? The o-ring in particular is notorious for leaking badly, and the oil that gets out can make its way clear across the front of the engine to look like a leak from somewhere else.

YES! i lifted my car today and i suspected (from the thin film of fresh oil all over the center recess of the lower timing cover) that this may just be the case. as of now, i've slathered on RTV on the lower oil pan gasket, the horizontal gasket between the upper and lower timing covers and the VCG is good to go to come to that conclusion. i have to wait until several weeks from now to receive the O ring (already have the flat oil filter housing gasket) that i need to complete the OFHG repair. i pay $150 bucks a month to park in a very densely populated part of seoul, and the landowner has threatened to kick me out for the massive amount of oil that i've been leaking so as of now i'm dropping cat litter in the proximity of my car every time i drive to pretend that the leak is 'fixed'.

pic attached shows the portion of the 'center recess' that had oil all over it. the sensor circled also had oil all over it, which i presume came from the same thing (but it was wiped off clean)

Interesting...sounds somewhat like what I recall hearing from friends I visited in Hong Kong. "Working on cars" is a much more niche thing it seems.

yeah, working on cars is not a thing here. i'm part of an e30 community here (total of 30 people with e30's, only one other M42), and the entire group chat is comprised of conversations about exterior mods... and get this. since e30's are somewhat of a 'trend', along with all things vintage, people here actually MAKE money on their e30's lending them out. some guy gets 10 g's a month just lending his car for music videos and the like.

interestingly, the highest demand e30's are auto convertibles (ease of use, aesthetic element for music videos). apparently, the culture is similar in japan. most people just outsource work. it's a wistful circumstance, in my opinion. ain't nothing that nurtures meaning like stripping bolts and spending countless hours cursing and bonding with your own car.

i'm an educator by trade and i came to korea to change things up here-- seoul has a flagrant 'brain drain', where students are incredibly proficient at regurgitating information-- and yet cannot apply it to new scenarios. the whole 'not working on cars' is another tell tale sign of the limited opportunities for koreans to truly breach the glass ceiling intellectually.

sorry, i'm pretty drunk so i'm probably rambling. appreciate your acuity and m42 acumen. i read in another thread that generic o-rings won't work for the OFHG so i just have to patiently wait for ECS to deliver the goods.

[bmwman91]

YES! i lifted my car today and i suspected (from the thin film of fresh oil all over the center recess of the lower timing cover) that this may just be the case. as of now, i've slathered on RTV on the lower oil pan gasket, the horizontal gasket between the upper and lower timing covers and the VCG is good to go to come to that conclusion. i have to wait until several weeks from now to receive the O ring (already have the flat oil filter housing gasket) that i need to complete the OFHG repair. i pay $150 bucks a month to park in a very densely populated part of seoul, and the landowner has threatened to kick me out for the massive amount of oil that i've been leaking so as of now i'm dropping cat litter in the proximity of my car every time i drive to pretend that the leak is 'fixed'.

pic attached shows the portion of the 'center recess' that had oil all over it. the sensor circled also had oil all over it, which i presume came from the same thing (but it was wiped off clean)



yeah, working on cars is not a thing here. i'm part of an e30 community here (total of 30 people with e30's, only one other M42), and the entire group chat is comprised of conversations about exterior mods... and get this. since e30's are somewhat of a 'trend', along with all things vintage, people here actually MAKE money on their e30's lending them out. some guy gets 10 g's a month just lending his car for music videos and the like.

interestingly, the highest demand e30's are auto convertibles (ease of use, aesthetic element for music videos). apparently, the culture is similar in japan. most people just outsource work. it's a wistful circumstance, in my opinion. ain't nothing that nurtures meaning like stripping bolts and spending countless hours cursing and bonding with your own car.

i'm an educator by trade and i came to korea to change things up here-- seoul has a flagrant 'brain drain', where students are incredibly proficient at regurgitating information-- and yet cannot apply it to new scenarios. the whole 'not working on cars' is another tell tale sign of the limited opportunities for koreans to truly breach the glass ceiling intellectually.

sorry, i'm pretty drunk so i'm probably rambling. appreciate your acuity and m42 acumen. i read in another thread that generic o-rings won't work for the OFHG so i just have to patiently wait for ECS to deliver the goods.

Yeah, oil in the areas shown in the photo can easily be from the OFH. Honestly, the only other place I have ever seen it leak from is the butt joint discussed earlier up, and it is almost always just a drop or two every time you park. When the engine is running, the crankcase is under partial vacuum which keeps oil in, so whatever leaks is what settled inside in that area when the engine shuts off.

The OFH on the other hand can make for an incredible mess since the leak comes from the highest pressure part of the system. Many years ago, a crapped o-ring led to puddles 10cm in diameter when parking, and that didn't include everything that squirted out when driving. Luckily I caught it early before the engine ran too low on oil, although that engine is long gone in favor of the built-up one I have now.


It sounds like there are some big cultural differences between the west & where you are when it comes to wrenching. I work with a lot of people from all around the country and world, and totally know what you mean about some people being smart through studying vs, others being smart by going out and getting their hands on something. There's a balance to be had between studying/discipline and just going out and trying something and hoping you will figure it out. Humans are bad at balance though, so I think that more often than not people tend toward extreme-studying or extreme-bouncing-between-ideas. In the way that you mention that things might be stacked a little too heavily in the studying direction where you are, I sometimes feel like the west is drifting a bit too far the other way. Innovation & new untested ideas are always needed, but so too are people who can take the ideas and grind them out into a functional end result! A pet theory of mine is that America's greatest strategic advantage has been its ability to attract the smartest people from other countries. The variety of cultures, ideas and work approaches lead to things getting done. I am sure that other countries that don't appreciate the brain-drain though!

[s-thetikz]

Yeah, oil in the areas shown in the photo can easily be from the OFH. Honestly, the only other place I have ever seen it leak from is the butt joint discussed earlier up, and it is almost always just a drop or two every time you park. When the engine is running, the crankcase is under partial vacuum which keeps oil in, so whatever leaks is what settled inside in that area when the engine shuts off.

The OFH on the other hand can make for an incredible mess since the leak comes from the highest pressure part of the system. Many years ago, a crapped o-ring led to puddles 10cm in diameter when parking, and that didn't include everything that squirted out when driving. Luckily I caught it early before the engine ran too low on oil, although that engine is long gone in favor of the built-up one I have now.


It sounds like there are some big cultural differences between the west & where you are when it comes to wrenching. I work with a lot of people from all around the country and world, and totally know what you mean about some people being smart through studying vs, others being smart by going out and getting their hands on something. There's a balance to be had between studying/discipline and just going out and trying something and hoping you will figure it out. Humans are bad at balance though, so I think that more often than not people tend toward extreme-studying or extreme-bouncing-between-ideas. In the way that you mention that things might be stacked a little too heavily in the studying direction where you are, I sometimes feel like the west is drifting a bit too far the other way. Innovation & new untested ideas are always needed, but so too are people who can take the ideas and grind them out into a functional end result! A pet theory of mine is that America's greatest strategic advantage has been its ability to attract the smartest people from other countries. The variety of cultures, ideas and work approaches lead to things getting done. I am sure that other countries that don't appreciate the brain-drain though!

that's deep bro. i read this back when you wrote it and couldn't think of a solid reply to this other than resounding concurrence, my man.

always appreciate your replies.

ps. if you happen to see this first, could you help me out here? :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwS7d5Q-G74&feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=EugK

[bmwman91]

that's deep bro. i read this back when you wrote it and couldn't think of a solid reply to this other than resounding concurrence, my man.

always appreciate your replies.

ps. if you happen to see this first, could you help me out here? :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwS7...b_channel=EugK

No worries man, a totally acceptable reply to my philosophical rambling would have been "bleep blorp". Middle age is creeping up and I am getting all existential haha.

As far as your noise (excellent video title BTW), my first thoughts are belts, water pump and fan clutch. You can test all of them out pretty easily by doing stuff like removing the fan and running the car, or removing each belt and running it.

[s-thetikz]

No worries man, a totally acceptable reply to my philosophical rambling would have been "bleep blorp". Middle age is creeping up and I am getting all existential haha.

As far as your noise (excellent video title BTW), my first thoughts are belts, water pump and fan clutch. You can test all of them out pretty easily by doing stuff like removing the fan and running the car, or removing each belt and running it.

hahaha-- no man, really was the first time i've ever thought about such things with a car forum all up in my face. greatly appreciate your thoughts.


augh that's what i figured and replaced the fan clutch and water pump. still same noise. the belt looks stout, i tried slacking and tightening (and also soaping) to see if there was any difference in sound, and there was not :( i will order another belt, but not feeling too confident it will do much,...

perhaps alternator bearing? but free spinning the alternator, it sounds smooth. and speaking of smooth, if it was a belt problem, wouldn't it be a constant noise / whine rather than the chugga chugga chugga cadence?

quite the thinker. i may be wrong about the sound going away with no belt... in which case (really hoping this isn't the case) coming from under the valve cover?

oh PS i accidentally linked you to the video alone, not the thread with additional info ~ https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/for...ge4-depression

[bmwman91]

hahaha-- no man, really was the first time i've ever thought about such things with a car forum all up in my face. greatly appreciate your thoughts.

I am a lot less active on the forums than I used to be, but there's always room for some good conversation about the rest of life that happens outside of the car!

[varg]

I once fixed a timing case/profile gasket leak by applying suction via shop vac to the crankcase, spraying brake cleaner in the leaking area until the oil was thoroughly cleaned out then smearing thin silicone into the leak while still under suction. I recall this fix holding up for quite a while, a good stopgap measure. I also had a 0.120 MLS head gasket which is probably what caused the leak in the first place. YMMV. I don't miss that particular design choice.