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    #31
    putting in a MAF is not going to help throttle response (much).

    The problem is not the AFM - the problem is Motronic 1.3 with it's cruddy throttle switch has very poor acceleration enrichment. So when you stab the throttle, by the time the computer figures out it needs to inject more fuel, you've already had a big fat lean spike. Replacing the air metering device is never going to fix this. Ever.

    The only real solution is engine management other than Motronic 1.3

    also, there's no way the miller MAF gives you 20hp. It's a nice product and all, but not a chance in hell.
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      #32
      Discuss.. Interesting information nando.
      clutchCTRL!
      Move with a purpose.
      - 1991 325iX 4dr/5spd
      - 1976 2002 SlickTop/2.7i M20/G260
      - 2000 323i AT
      2016 Mazda CX3 Sport AWD

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        #33
        Just read the info on the GenIII. Sounds really really cool.
        clutchCTRL!
        Move with a purpose.
        - 1991 325iX 4dr/5spd
        - 1976 2002 SlickTop/2.7i M20/G260
        - 2000 323i AT
        2016 Mazda CX3 Sport AWD

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          #34
          S14 + 1 billion.
          1985 M10b18. 70maybewhpoffury. Over engineered S50b30 murica BBQ swap in progress.

          Originally posted by DEV0 E30
          You'd chugg this butt. I know you would. Ain't gotta' lie to kick it brostantinople.

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            #35
            Originally posted by nando View Post
            putting in a MAF is not going to help throttle response (much).

            The problem is not the AFM - the problem is Motronic 1.3 with it's cruddy throttle switch has very poor acceleration enrichment. So when you stab the throttle, by the time the computer figures out it needs to inject more fuel, you've already had a big fat lean spike. Replacing the air metering device is never going to fix this. Ever.

            The only real solution is engine management other than Motronic 1.3

            also, there's no way the miller MAF gives you 20hp. It's a nice product and all, but not a chance in hell.
            Not just the MAF makes the HP it is a chip as well, and you are correct about Motronic 1.3 and the T/P signal but a AMM rather than an AFM does improve the response a bit, enough to be noticeable.

            There are other reasons to do this as well.
            I'm Not Right in the Head | Random Rants and other Nonsense1st Order Logic Failure: Association fallacy, this type of fallacy can be expressed as (∃xS : φ(x)) → (∀xS : φ(x)), meaning "if there exists any x in the set S so that a property φ is true for x, then for all x in S the property φ must be true".

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              #36
              even with a chip, it's not going to happen. I saw 10hp by losing the AFM and going to MAP, and this wasn't a stock motor. how are you going to get 20hp by basically doing the same thing to a stock motor, and then use an off the shelf chip rather than a dyno tune for that specific motor?
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              Bimmerlabs

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                #37
                Originally posted by Holland View Post
                S14 + 1 billion.
                What's the point in spending that much cash to find and swap an S14 into the car when I could put that money into the M20 and romp on an S14?

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by YAN-3 View Post
                  I dont know what to Say, but maybe 1 thing you can do is get a special 4 cylinder motor ;)
                  mmmm....I see what you did there, with the 3 letters

                  join the E30 Cabrio owners gruppe
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                    #39
                    Miller's response:

                    "Hi David,

                    No, you can't run any other software with the MAF conversion. The tune
                    is so much different with a MAF that a chip designed for the AFM will
                    not work. Our chip that comes with the MAF is tuned to optimize
                    performance and allow your car to run smoothly on the MAF sensor.

                    --
                    Brody Saari"

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                      #40
                      they probably had to change the load transfer function for the AFM to deal with the MAF. I don't think the signal from the AFM is linear, but the MAF is.. so makes sense you can't use another chip with their maf. It still won't give you 20hp on a stock motor though. ;)
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                      Bimmerlabs

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                        #41
                        Originally posted by nando View Post
                        they probably had to change the load transfer function for the AFM to deal with the MAF. I don't think the signal from the AFM is linear, but the MAF is.. so makes sense you can't use another chip with their maf. It still won't give you 20hp on a stock motor though. ;)
                        So you think they botched their dyno graphs then?

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                          #42
                          my apologies if you've already touched on these but don't overlook taking weight out of the car (sound deadening, etc). Also, what rear end is in the car? 4.10s are pretty easy to get.
                          Lance Richert '88 M3, #35 PRO3, i3 etc.
                          www.LanceRichertArchitect.com

                          2019 E30 Picnic Weekend: June 22-23 2019

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                            #43
                            Originally posted by Mucci View Post
                            So you think they botched their dyno graphs then?
                            it's really easy to exaggerate the correction factors to get more favorable results. Just consider them highly optimistic..
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                            Bimmerlabs

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                              #44
                              Originally posted by nando View Post
                              it's really easy to exaggerate the correction factors to get more favorable results. Just consider them highly optimistic..
                              Why is that so hard to believe? Most aftermarket software manufacturers claim around the same gains - with the AFM intact.

                              From Pelican:

                              "I recently go a hold of a Dinan performance chip for my E30. The benefits of this chip include raising the factory rev-limiter to 6900 RPM and increases horsepower from 168 to 183. It does this by essentially re-configuring the fuel injection map to advance the timing, fuel pressure, etc. This translates into a dramatic seat of the pants change in power, or as we refer to it, the butt dyno."


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                                #45
                                Originally posted by nando View Post
                                even with a chip, it's not going to happen. I saw 10hp by losing the AFM and going to MAP, and this wasn't a stock motor. how are you going to get 20hp by basically doing the same thing to a stock motor, and then use an off the shelf chip rather than a dyno tune for that specific motor?
                                Once you have this maf and chip you could tweak it couldn't you?

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