Tesla

[Wschnitz]

funny, we have a lot of 'em up here. Sure, if someone gave me one, I'd drive it forever.

I was gonna say, we have a dealership dowtown (that someone with an E30 works at) and ive seen plenty around. They are cool imo.

[Pl3wA]

yeah, hyrdogen.

they pretty much have a hydrogen powered car. its just about as much to fill as a petrol car and since it has one moving part it is very simple. they probably wont make them until pretty far in the future because of the incredible loss of profit for oil companies

[slaterd]

If they wouldn't rely solely on the motor's speed for actual road speed then they'd be able to squeeze more miles and make it more economical. Pair it with an electronic CVT transmission then you'll probably double mile range.

No gears and the transmission will stay within the optimum power range. Adjustable ratios, not different gear ratios, means less rotation and power output to make the car cruise at highway speeds. Cool story, I know.

[mrsleeve]

jesus tap dancing christ what dont you people understand about stored energy by volume.

Even with the 1/3 ish usable BTU of the ICE for locomotion, thats still 42k BTUs of energy, that is still more energy than an entire gallon of liquid H2 has in totality before you lose anything in the process of creating locomotion.

H2 is still a lost cause, you cant get more work out of something than it has stored energy available in it. OHHHHHH you have a CVT, put a good little Diesel in front of it and you will get a hell of a lot more work than with a H2............

Fuck why is this such a hard concept to grasp..................................

[nando]

jesus tap dancing christ what dont you people understand about stored energy by volume.

Even with the 1/3 ish usable BTU of the ICE for locomotion, thats still 42k BTUs of energy, that is still more energy than an entire gallon of liquid H2 has in totality before you lose anything in the process of creating locomotion.

H2 is still a lost cause, you cant get more work out of something than it has stored energy available in it. OHHHHHH you have a CVT, put a good little Diesel in front of it and you will get a hell of a lot more work than with a H2............

Fuck why is this such a hard concept to grasp..................................

it's almost silly, isn't it? also, being in the oil industry, you can see the writing on the wall, am I right? There's a reason the big oil companies are ditching refineries and downstream assets (and why our company is trying to diversify into upstream, solar, wind, and even water plants).

I'll bet the switch to electric happens faster than you think.. Tesla is just the start. How long did people still drive around in horse driven carts while automobiles were new? How many of those people thought that horse driven carts would never go away?

I can't say, from an auto enthusiasts perspective, that I'm super excited about an electric car (although even a 100 mile range would be plenty for my daily commute, I could do a whole week on one charge). But I really wonder if most people will be buying gas powered cars by the time my kids are ready to drive. If they can do ~300 miles on a charge now, what will they be able to do in 20 years?

another thing that hasn't happened yet is a big push into motorsports.... imagine electric F1 cars and how far the technical advances would go ($$$$$ in R&D).

[nando]

yeah, hyrdogen.

they pretty much have a hydrogen powered car. its just about as much to fill as a petrol car and since it has one moving part it is very simple. they probably wont make them until pretty far in the future because of the incredible loss of profit for oil companies

or, because there is no viable source of hydrogen (that doesn't cost huge amounts to extract).

you may as well design a car that runs on Unicorn farts.

[ohthejosh]

you may as well design a car that runs on Unicorn farts.

i lol'd and gave out a lil poot at the same time.

[Mossman]

this thread had me loll'ing with all the hydrogen fanboys. I don't know the history of it but i wouldn't be surprised if oil companies gave money to hydrogen research so they could look green, while knowing full well it would never eat into their oil sales by a single barrel. Shit is laughable. Total spinning wheels/wasting time that could have been used to research something possibly useful.

Electric is the answer and the way to get it is nuclear. Fission in the short term and hopefully fusion in the long term. End of story. If you think wind or solar can be the answer to our mainstream energy needs read some books. I don't know whether thorium will pan out but china is apparently building a plant now, and if that works and the US can get out from under big oil's thumb and build some thorium plants we'll be fine for a long time, cuz the shit actually exists here.

okay gonna look at pictures of cars now

[TobyB]

you may as well design a car that runs on Unicorn farts.

or electricity... which is where we started...

i wouldn't be surprised if oil companies gave money to hydrogen research so they could look green, while knowing full well it would never eat into their oil sales by a single barrel.

this.

hee

t

[nando]

We have electricity (and hey, a huge surplus of natural gas to make it from). Please, tell me how you get hydrogen without using electricity to convert it from water. Electricity that could be used to power electric vehicles directly, instead of going through an extra chemical phase, just to end up with 1/3rd the energy content of fossil fuel.

LOL at the oil companies comment. Yeah, refineries can make some, but it's expensive, and is only used for specific processes in limited amounts.

So where is all this hydrogen production capacity that will replace all of our oil? Oh yeah - it doesn't exist.

[PeteD]

Quick history about Tesla.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gOR91oentQ

[MAXELHOFF]

instant torque

Good turbo diesels are the best for the environment, right now. Electric cars export pollution, for now. Wait until the batteries get very small/light/clean!

[pandaboo911]

You could drive your petrol car for a whole lifetime and it would'nt even come close to the environmental damage caused by the production of those batteries. Where are you going to get the materials to stick 1500 laptop batteries into millions of cars? It's not about efficiency here, it's about ridding ourselves of carbon emission and ceasing to irreversibly damage our planet.

[Wschnitz]

Li-ion batters are pretty much clean though. We are not running the old alkaline acid batterys anymore, now they are pieces of metal that hold charge and can be recycled.

Im not kidding, take out your smart phone battery and look at the symbols on it, one is li-ion surrounded by the recycle logo.

Dont get me wrong, Id never get rid of my petrol cars, i love the sound they make that electrics will never give, and id buy a new Golf TDI before id ever buy an electric, but if we are getting 300mi to a charge now, and can convert sunlight/wind/waves/heat/rivers into electricity and it costs like a buck or two to charge your ride, why not? The promise is definitely there. The way tesla is coming down and making their cars affordable luxury cars is cool too. It means someday we can all afford one given time and materials cost being reduced. I mean if we can cheapen the batteries it will not only be plausible, but explicitly worth the money.

Just my thoughts.

[mrsleeve]

Li-ion batters are pretty much clean though. We are not running the old alkaline acid batterys anymore, now they are pieces of metal that hold charge and can be recycled.

Im not kidding, take out your smart phone battery and look at the symbols on it, one is li-ion surrounded by the recycle logo.

Dont get me wrong, Id never get rid of my petrol cars, i love the sound they make that electrics will never give, and id buy a new Golf TDI before id ever buy an electric, but if we are getting 300mi to a charge now, and can convert sunlight/wind/waves/heat/rivers into electricity and it costs like a buck or two to charge your ride, why not? The promise is definitely there. The way tesla is coming down and making their cars affordable luxury cars is cool too. It means someday we can all afford one given time and materials cost being reduced. I mean if we can cheapen the batteries it will not only be plausible, but explicitly worth the money.

Just my thoughts.

And just where does that Lithium come from. and how does it get into a useable format for batteries. Both processes are far worse for the environment than a construction and a life time of driving a conventional auto...