So long e30 M3s...

[reelizmpro]

So does a Dinan Turbo M3 or an RMS supercharged M3 fall into the same category of a swapper? They still retain the S14, but obviously change the characteristic of that motor.

My view on swaps: I'd never take out an S14 if I had an S14 powered E30 M3, but I wouldn't (haven't) turn a cheek at a good swapped car, or build a swapped car that otherwise would have been scrap metal.

Do you think the '02 guys have the same argument about dudes that are putting S14's in that chassis?

It's obviously not a swap. Modified S14's are fair game but some people believe that in the spirit of BMW Motorsport in a time they believed in NA horsepower, that the S14 should be kept NA. ERT/RMS both had supercharger kits but only a few cars had them. I think there were reliability issues that ultimately did them in. People didn't necessarily want to tear the engine apart and lower the compression so they could run safe levels of boost so they were just bolting these kits on, running 7-8 PSI with 10.5:1 or higher compression with the stock Motronic. The kit was also expensive for what it was especially the Dinan turbo. Like it or not, if HP was the reason for an engine swap, then FI took care of that and then some, without resorting to a complete engine swap so it is more acceptable. At least you still have the correct engine powering the car and the kit is a bolt on/off affair. Today, it's just great to still see the S14 in an M3 FI'd or not.

I share your views as well except I have passed on a few swapped M3's. I felt like I was paying a premium for a car that wasn't "all there." A car that could be reproduced easily out of a non M3. In retrospect, I probably should have bought them since the price was right but all 3 needed work. Another thing is there's no way to verify mileage or history when people swap in a used engine since 99% of the time the odometer wasn't recalibrated if it was working at all.

As for the duece's...maybe the Ireland Engineering guys can chime in on that. All I know is it would be a damn shame to see a swapped 2002 Turbo.

[tom d]

Do you think the '02 guys have the same argument about dudes that are putting S14's in that chassis?

probably, at least some of them.

the 2002 although an important car for BMW does not have the historical significance of the E30M3. but at it's core the S14 is really a M10 and putting one in a 2002 therefore would be correct, just not period correct. IMHO.

[Eric]

So does a Dinan Turbo M3 or an RMS supercharged M3 fall into the same category of a swapper? They still retain the S14, but obviously change the characteristic of that motor.

My view on swaps: I'd never take out an S14 if I had an S14 powered E30 M3, but I wouldn't (haven't) turn a cheek at a good swapped car, or build a swapped car that otherwise would have been scrap metal.

Do you think the '02 guys have the same argument about dudes that are putting S14's in that chassis?

[Motorsports]

I understand perfectly why people swap their motors. I just dont get why people swap the s14 for a later motor, then when it comes the time to sell. They expect to get 30 to 40k.

[Cloudbase]

I've ridden in a few S14 M3's along w/ Hansel's car on the track. I've also driven quite a few S50 swapped E30's. They are different animals for sure, but I don't think the difference hurts the car enough to take away from it. If people want to swap their cars due to the expense / power of the S14, I understand it.

Later in my post, I agree that the lighter weight, better balance, and high strung nature of the S14 are attributes that define the E30 M3 and attributes that I prefer. I always prefer light weight to power. Our Chump Car is a stripped 1st gen MR2. It probably weights under 2000lbs and is certainly a momentum car. All of that said, I can understand why people swap their cars. Being that I already have a more powerful M Car, an S14 M3 will likely be what I seek when I can make it happen for the reasons stated above.

[Motorsports]

Few people here understand the whole concept of the e30 m3 here. Reelizmpro explained it perfectly.

[reelizmpro]

I apologize in advance for the novel, but I'm laid up recovering from wisdom teeth surgery. I've seen / ridden in Hansel's car and the mods in no way take away from it's E30 M3 pedigree.

I don't have an E30 M3 (yet)...

What do you base your assessment from? Sorry, anyone who says an engine swap doesn't take away from the E30 M3 pedigree doesn't fully understand (or care about) what made the car special. Take two cars...S50 318/325 and S50 M3. Both cars will drive the same except one looks cooler. They will have the same characteristics. You do realize all of the legend surrounding the M3 is due to it's success with the S14, right? The formula of a lightweight, balanced, high strung engine proved to be successful and that's what made an E30 M3 an E30 M3. It's a momentum car...a driver's car completely opposite from the "let's just shoehorn the biggest engine we have" mentality.

[Cloudbase]

I apologize in advance for the novel, but I'm laid up recovering from wisdom teeth surgery. I've seen / ridden in Hansel's car and the mods in no way take away from it's E30 M3 pedigree.

I don't have an E30 M3 (yet), but I've been going through a similar debate with my M Coupe for years, i.e. how much track prep should I do, how wrong is it to hack up the car.

Arguably the original M Coupe, while not as iconic, is becoming as collectable as an E30 M3. Driving the M Coupe on public roads is just an exercise in frustration. As I've improved my driving and racing talent it's either too unsafe, too illegal, or too socially irresponsible to push the car anywhere near my/its limits. On the track the rareness of my M Coupe always held me back - it's #498 of 690 S54 E36/8's. I race Chump Car and karts, but still like tracking BMW's so I bought a track prepped M Roadster. The roadster had all of the street shortcomings removed and was way more shuntable, but it wasn't a rigid as the M Coupe and the S52 didn't pull the like the S54. I made up for it with suspension tweaks and aero - turning the car into more of a momentum car. This probably did more to improve my driving than anything else, but in the end I couldn't afford both cars so I sold the M Roadster.

I decided to make the M Coupe as track-prepped as possible without making permanent changes that can't be put exactly back to stock. Seats, bolt in harness bar, exhaust, steering wheel, shifter, bushings, suspension, square street and track wheels, brake cooling ducts, and preventative engine work. I've got a NASA TT license, which will be a perfect level of "exposure" for the M Coupe.

Motorsport cars are born from a racing pedigree, I think they should certainly be driven on the track. Eventually, that means the owners will want to prep them to varying degrees with cages, seats, suspension, fire suppression, etc to make it safe and effective. The stock seats, belts, and steering wheel in the M Coupe were a huge impediment.

My M20 powered E30 is my favorite car to drive on the street because it is underpowered. I have to use my skill and strategy to negotiate bad drivers in overpowered modern cars. The better balance and higher revving nature of the S14 would likely feel the same for me on the track, especially on shorter / tighter tracks where I could use momentum driving. I plan on getting an E30 M3 in the next few years, even if the prices sky rocket. I'm pretty open minded on how track prepped or motor-swapped it is.

[Hansel]

i dont like that i cant modify it w/o being judged.

I bought one that had already been S52'd AND repainted a non factory color. Double anger!

You'll be judged even if you didn't do it!

[Cabriolet]

I have an M3, it's cool

same. it looks really cool. but 6 hours in it on the freeway makes me hate it.


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i dont like that i cant modify it w/o being judged.
i hate 4cyl cars.
im scared to push it bc i cant afford to fix it.

[Roysneon]

lol

mad mad mad

[tom d]

Would you be pissed if somebody used an m20?

I wouldn't put a M20 in anything, well maybe in a boat, with a long chain attached.

[LowR3V'in]

Would you be pissed if somebody used an m20?

[tom d]

No point in really caring what someone does to an E30 M3 when they own it.

there's a lot of this being said and it's bullshit.

the E30M3 will go down in history as an important and significant car. knowing this, those of us that own them have to realize that in reality we don't own them at all, that we are merely the custodians of a piece of automotive history.

[reelizmpro]

Yeah, different strokes for different folks. As long as we are happy...