So long e30 M3s...

[enigmaticdream]

When I bought my car I was going to make OEM+ until I found evidence of an accident in the rear. Now I'm modding it the way I want. To me the car is not perfect although the title says it is. So, I'm making the weekend/track/autox car I want. I refuse to strip the interior or do a cage, but that doesn't meant I haven't spent a considerable amount of time upgrading components (suspension, exhaust, shifter, seats, and working on a BBK).

There is a dude who lives around here with a bone stock e30 m3. He is the original owner. It is beautiful. If I had that car I'd probably not mod it, but my car isn't perfect. So, I don't care about keeping it stock. It is presentable enough and functions absolutely stellar.

[fronton]

*scratching head*

So all those people who rave about the controlability, tactile feel, and brilliant dynamics are wrong? I've never heard anyone drive a well sorted M3 say it needs more power.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing the engine swap, I just never felt like the car needed more power. M cars have never been about speed, they've been about balance.

You are saying that e30 M3 owners don't want more power? Why do you think their are so many swaps in the first place? Even the 'holy grail' for purists is to bore the s14 to 2.5l and run alpha N with a cf intake for maybe 10% more power.

You can have more power in a M3 without giving up controllability, tactile feel, brilliant dynamics and balance. Just because you have 50% more power doesn't mean you have to be sliding all over the place out of control. And if you are smart about how you do it, you can maintain the same weight and distribution (or even better) than it came from the factory.

I also disagree that M cars have never been about speed. Not about outrageous power output, but speed and maintaining speed is exactly what they are about.

I am not against anyone keeping their car completely stock, I appreciate them and respect their restraint. I just got bummed with mine because it wasn't a mind-blowingly quicker or significantly more fun car than my 318is, and that was a let down.

[jhaurimn]

He wasn't saying the S14 blows, like it's a bad motor, but when it physically blows up, it costs $7k to rebuild it (although I've heard higher numbers).

Lol, yes thank you. Reading back i see how that could of been taken the wrong way. I definitely respect and appreciate the s14, but when you have to rebuild one, its not easy on the wallet.

[einhander]

Probably more true than many "purist" owners would like to admit. I don't think the s14 blows at all but to me, the look of the car is too awesome for the 190hp and 170ft/lb version of it. Box flares and spoilers for that kind of power tend to mislead and disappoint. It took me about 500 miles with the s14 before resolving that it needed at least another 100hp to live up to the hype. Since building a US spec s14 to 300hp is incredibly difficult without access to a 1990 DTM works team, and I would sacrificing drivability and reliability, I resolved to swap in a s38.

No regrets, just grins.

*scratching head*

So all those people who rave about the controlability, tactile feel, and brilliant dynamics are wrong? I've never heard anyone drive a well sorted M3 say it needs more power.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing the engine swap, I just never felt like the car needed more power. M cars have never been about speed, they've been about balance.

[reelizmpro]

The only thing ridiculously expensive on the s14 are the timing chain rails. Cost me $4800 to do a full rebuild with original BMW bearings and headgasket... including JE coated pistons$800, ported head $500, evo oil pump$350 which are extras. Sure it can cost more if you dont know s14's and pay someone to rebuild it for you.

Bottom line is there are people willing to pay big bucks for s14's and s50 swaps are getting cheaper everyday. The s50 is reliable as long as the.headgasket doesnt go or you moneyshift it and if you do, you can easily find another one.

[rturbo 930]

I don't think the s14 blows at all

He wasn't saying the S14 blows, like it's a bad motor, but when it physically blows up, it costs $7k to rebuild it (although I've heard higher numbers).

And I think he's right. I used to want an E30 M3 more than anything, but now I doubt I'll ever own one. Engine rebuilds cost too much, and parts can be hard to find and expensive. I'd rather have the much cheaper non-M models, with lots of parts readily available when shit breaks.

[fronton]

Lets be real-- a large reason why m3s get engine swapped is because the s14 blows, and the owner doesnt have $7,000 laying around to rebuild it. Or cant be bothered to spend months sourcing the parts. Its not like rebuilding an m20.

Probably more true than many "purist" owners would like to admit. I don't think the s14 blows at all but to me, the look of the car is too awesome for the 190hp and 170ft/lb version of it. Box flares and spoilers for that kind of power tend to mislead and disappoint. It took me about 500 miles with the s14 before resolving that it needed at least another 100hp to live up to the hype. Since building a US spec s14 to 300hp is incredibly difficult without access to a 1990 DTM works team, and I would sacrificing drivability and reliability, I resolved to swap in a s38.

No regrets, just grins.

[702pjc]

I agree with your statement. I think the true way to enjoy these cars is in the way they were sold to the public.
Putting cages in, and swapping v8 motors should be done to the non-M cars. By that point your so highly modified, that all you have is a non-M car with wider flares..etc.

This man speaks the truth.

[jhaurimn]

Lets be real-- a large reason why m3s get engine swapped is because the s14 blows, and the owner doesnt have $7,000 laying around to rebuild it. Or cant be bothered to spend months sourcing the parts. Its not like rebuilding an m20.

[Farbin Kaiber]

Burn.

[Holland]

Rturbo 930. Since you like porsches...Have you ever heard of the porsche yellowbird? In 87' it was 470hp in one of the most unforgiving chassis ever. It was one of the hardest vehicles to drive. Good thing those guys didn't have your mindset. It would of never been made...too much HP....can't be used.

It's actually a RUF CTR, not a Porsche. It's a 911 turbo chassis, which RUF then turned into a slippery monster. Yellowbird was the name given to it by Road and Track when testing the car.

Just to clarify.

[Thizzelle]

I have an M3, it's cool

[matthugie]

The butthurt is strong in this thread

This.

[88Alpine]

Personally, I cringe, SMH and quickly move to the next car, page, video or whatever I'm doing at the time if an E30 M3 doesn't have an S14 in it.
(An S38 gets a pass, just looks sexy)

Everyone is entitled to do what they please with what they own, as much as I am entitled to my opinion.

+1. I look for that "X" on the top right corner to close that 'motor swapped M3' page just like closing a pop-up ad, lol. The bottom line is, it's your car and your money.

[rturbo 930]

I think you missed this part:

Unless you're drag racing, or doing competitive road racing,

If you've got the talent to handle that amount of power in a light chassis, then go for it... but most people don't, me included.