Eag is crackpipe or not?

[nando]

I wonder if the $30k 325is still has a working odometer.. I mean, the little gears in there don't fail because of use, they fail because the plastic is made of something with the consistency of a stale oreo cookie.

[CorvallisBMW]

Current M3 pricing is a bubble, period. Nothing grows in value that wildly fast and stays there.

It will burst, and the person who paid $200k for his 25-year-old 4-banger will feel like a right idiot.

[Kershaw]

^ Yeah, it has all the markings of a bubble. But the people buying them now are serious collectors who would just hang on to it because they don't need to sell it. So I doubt we'll ever see sub $20k e30 m3s again. (todays dollars)

What I'm really surprised about, and what I figured would happen 2 years from now, but is already happening, is that e36 m3s are starting to go for over $20k now. I knew the e30 m3 would drag them along, but so quickly is surprising. It just goes to show how much the e30 m3 is skyrocketing. It's pulling everything m-badged up with it.

I mean honestly, would you rather have a $23k e36 m3, a new v6 Mustang, or a used Porsche Cayman? Depending on my use case, it'd either be the Mustang or Cayman, but it surely wouldn't be the e36 m3.

[Mr. Wolfe]

Current M3 pricing is a bubble, period. Nothing grows in value that wildly fast and stays there.

It will burst, and the person who paid $200k for his 25-year-old 4-banger will feel like a right idiot.

Unless he makes $200k/month which many people do. It's all relative. If you have endless streams of income and a low mileage car comes on the market, your emotional attachment, plus the fact that it might be the lowest mileage example out there could get the best of you. Low mileage, mint e30 M3's aren't just something you can go throw a pile of money at, at the dealership. You have to find these cars and then be the first to buy it. Any wealthy person can get a million dollar Bugatti, but it takes an enthusiast to find that rare gem that you may have to over-pay for.

Mr. Wolfe

[MrCooperS]

I didn't give them a chance. It went on the market and I called the guy within the hour and bought it. I have lost quite a few sales from EAG scooping them up first. 05-06 Interlagos ZCP's with 6MT are their bread-n-butter for the e46. They have many people that search the internet every day to scoop them up.

Mr. Wolfe

I was there (digitally) when that happened. You luck SOB. Great car :)

[reelizmpro]

Clean E36 M3's should fetch a premium but not that much. Not when there are so many E36's out there from $3k to 10k all day. Is a clean low miles US model E36 M3 really worth the extra 10k? This is the red headed step child of the bunch. We're talking about a car that was left out of the discussion altogether when it came to talk about the greatest M cars. I think people are trying to get ahead of the curve and are riding the wake of the E30 M3. Also a lot of these buyers are getting priced out of the E30 and going for the next future M3 classic. Didn't quite work for the 2.3-16, so I don't see how the US e36 M3 (save M3 Lightweight) can command that much of a premium. This car to me is truly a bubble if anything. Too much supply, same body and watered down engine.

Mr Wolfe hit the nail on the head. They just have to find the right buyer. The people who have been buying E30 M3's in the last few years aren't your typical M3 enthusiasts otherwise they would have bought them a long time ago. These guys are Porsche guys, Entertainers, car collectors, successful entrepreneurs and investors who have the money and want in on the ride. The car has gotten the attention of everyone these days.

[Kershaw]

Here's one that's been bid over $20k. It hasn't reached it's reserve but people are definitely buying e36 m3s for over $20k. Buy it now is set at $30k. Honestly, that's fairly ridiculous imo. If you can get it cheap, the e36 m3 is a fun sports car, but it's performance is nothing to take a write home about anymore.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-M3-Base-Convertible-2-Door-/222064959715?forcerrptr=true&hash=item33b41a60e3:g:u1kAAOSwBnVW9Yct&item=222064959715

$23k

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-M3-Base-Coupe-2-Door-/231889469159?forcerrptr=true&hash=item35fdb07ee7:g:m2UAAOSwoudW9GSR&item=231889469159

$29k

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-M3-Base-Coupe-2-Door-/231889469159?forcerrptr=true&hash=item35fdb07ee7:g:m2UAAOSwoudW9GSR&item=231889469159

How does the e36 m3 compare against this m3 for $29k? Lol.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-M3-Coupe-/201552149841?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2eed71bd51:g:a9oAAOSw8KNW~Fey&item=201552149841

[markseven]

Clean E36 M3's should fetch a premium but not that much. Not when there are so many E36's out there from $3k to 10k all day. Is a clean low miles US model E36 M3 really worth the extra 10k? This is the red headed step child of the bunch. We're talking about a car that was left out of the discussion altogether when it came to talk about the greatest M cars. I think people are trying to get ahead of the curve and are riding the wake of the E30 M3. Also a lot of these buyers are getting priced out of the E30 and going for the next future M3 classic. Didn't quite work for the 2.3-16, so I don't see how the US e36 M3 (save M3 Lightweight) can command that much of a premium. This car to me is truly a bubble if anything. Too much supply, same body and watered down engine.

///M pedigree took a hit with the E36.

I remember reading somewhere (maybe a Jeremy Walton article) that the E30 was the last chassis that was designed with no computer aids, and the E36 was the first to be done 100% digital. If memory serves, the article went on to say the E30's structure was 3X what the engineers felt were the minimums, whereas the E36 went into production with exactly what the computers ordered, no extra reinforcements to needed to mitigate human error(s).

[bimma360]

Clean E36 M3's should fetch a premium but not that much. Not when there are so many E36's out there from $3k to 10k all day. Is a clean low miles US model E36 M3 really worth the extra 10k? This is the red headed step child of the bunch. We're talking about a car that was left out of the discussion altogether when it came to talk about the greatest M cars. I think people are trying to get ahead of the curve and are riding the wake of the E30 M3. Also a lot of these buyers are getting priced out of the E30 and going for the next future M3 classic. Didn't quite work for the 2.3-16, so I don't see how the US e36 M3 (save M3 Lightweight) can command that much of a premium. This car to me is truly a bubble if anything. Too much supply, same body and watered down engine.

Mr Wolfe hit the nail on the head. They just have to find the right buyer. The people who have been buying E30 M3's in the last few years aren't your typical M3 enthusiasts otherwise they would have bought them a long time ago. These guys are Porsche guys, Entertainers, car collectors, successful entrepreneurs and investors who have the money and want in on the ride. The car has gotten the attention of everyone these days.

Here's one that's been bid over $20k. It hasn't reached it's reserve but people are definitely buying e36 m3s for over $20k. Buy it now is set at $30k. Honestly, that's fairly ridiculous imo. If you can get it cheap, the e36 m3 is a fun sports car, but it's performance is nothing to take a write home about anymore.

Hahah... man, I come back after a hiatus and see the e36 hate hasn't changed.

I still have my e30, but I have been daily driving an e36 M3 for the last 4 years. And I have to say, after the first week of driving the M3, I came to the realization that it IS the modern e30. To me an e36 M3 is 80-90% of the e30 feel at twice the performance. I love this thing. Don't get me wrong, it is NO replacement for my e30. The e30 chassis will always have a place in my heart for reasons the e36 can't touch, but if I could only have one I would probably stick with my e36 M3.

Over the last 15 years, I have been in both the e30 and e36 communities. And I have seen some evolutions. Early on no one gave a rats ass about the e30. In fact every other community looked down upon the chassis as a whole, even the e30 M3. Fast forward to today, and the e30 chassis is almost praised by all. People got to experience it and they realized in what respects, and why it is special. The exact same thing is happening to the e36 M3 right now. It makes sense, the chassis is more like the e30 then it is to the ones after it. And as a result you are seeing the prices go up for good examples. The $3K to $10K statement is a joke. Everything below $8k or $9k has some pretty heavy draw backs. Just like the $15K rule applied to the e30 M3 back in 2008, it now applies to the e36 M3. You want a good sorted one, you'll spend $10K+ and be ready for the $15K rule to apply. The low mileage, unmolested, mint examples totally make sense why they are going for above the $15K rule.

Now, talking about the greatest M cars discussion and the e36 M3 being left out of it. Let's be honest here, the discussion is always about the e46 M3 and all the models after it. The e30 gets the honorable mention b/c it was the first, had a great chassis/engine combo, and it was no frills. But don't think for a second, that its praises come close to nudging the e46+ M cars. I'll bet you that if the e30 M3 prices themselves weren't as high as they are now, the first two M cars would both be a brief mention in the discussion: The first one, the evolution into the second one, and the gigantic leap into the third one and so on. There are two pretty popular reviews on youtube (no point in mentioning them since i'm sure we have seen them all), that praise the e30 and e36 M3's for their good qualities and the "discussion" clearly doesn't start until the e46.

We can all be flabbergasted about the premiums these cars are fetching all we want. But fact of the matter is, both the e30 and e36 chassis at some point in time no one really gave any credit. Until everyone realized how awesome they are. Now demand for GOOD examples is increasing, and as a result the premium for FANTASTIC examples is beyond belief. Then the collectors get in the game, and really ruin it for everyone else.

Both the e30 and e36 M3s are fun sports cars, but their performance is nothing to write home about. People get into these cars, and appreciate these cars for their chassis. The chassis car ended with the e36. And arguably the e46 M3 is/was the perfect balance. Time will tell, but that car may be regarded as the best M3 honestly.

[reelizmpro]

Hahah... man, I come back after a hiatus and see the e36 hate hasn't changed.

I still have my e30, but I have been daily driving an e36 M3 for the last 4 years. And I have to say, after the first week of driving the M3, I came to the realization that it IS the modern e30. To me an e36 M3 is 80-90% of the e30 feel at twice the performance. I love this thing. Don't get me wrong, it is NO replacement for my e30. The e30 chassis will always have a place in my heart for reasons the e36 can't touch, but if I could only have one I would probably stick with my e36 M3.

Over the last 15 years, I have been in both the e30 and e36 communities. And I have seen some evolutions. Early on no one gave a rats ass about the e30. In fact every other community looked down upon the chassis as a whole, even the e30 M3. Fast forward to today, and the e30 chassis is almost praised by all. People got to experience it and they realized in what respects, and why it is special. The exact same thing is happening to the e36 M3 right now. It makes sense, the chassis is more like the e30 then it is to the ones after it. And as a result you are seeing the prices go up for good examples. The $3K to $10K statement is a joke. Everything below $8k or $9k has some pretty heavy draw backs. Just like the $15K rule applied to the e30 M3 back in 2008, it now applies to the e36 M3. You want a good sorted one, you'll spend $10K+ and be ready for the $15K rule to apply. The low mileage, unmolested, mint examples totally make sense why they are going for above the $15K rule.

Now, talking about the greatest M cars discussion and the e36 M3 being left out of it. Let's be honest here, the discussion is always about the e46 M3 and all the models after it. The e30 gets the honorable mention b/c it was the first, had a great chassis/engine combo, and it was no frills. But don't think for a second, that its praises come close to nudging the e46+ M cars. I'll bet you that if the e30 M3 prices themselves weren't as high as they are now, the first two M cars would both be a brief mention in the discussion: The first one, the evolution into the second one, and the gigantic leap into the third one and so on. There are two pretty popular reviews on youtube (no point in mentioning them since i'm sure we have seen them all), that praise the e30 and e36 M3's for their good qualities and the "discussion" clearly doesn't start until the e46.

We can all be flabbergasted about the premiums these cars are fetching all we want. But fact of the matter is, both the e30 and e36 chassis at some point in time no one really gave any credit. Until everyone realized how awesome they are. Now demand for GOOD examples is increasing, and as a result the premium for FANTASTIC examples is beyond belief. Then the collectors get in the game, and really ruin it for everyone else.

Both the e30 and e36 M3s are fun sports cars, but their performance is nothing to write home about. People get into these cars, and appreciate these cars for their chassis. The chassis car ended with the e36. And arguably the e46 M3 is/was the perfect balance. Time will tell, but that car may be regarded as the best M3 honestly.

I'm not joking at all but I guess that depends on where you live. I live in a state where there are tons of E36 M3's. I almost bought a super clean one for $9k a while back but got my M tech vert instead. There was even a Dinan supercharged M3 sitting at 9k for months before it sold. They even started showing up at the local pick your parts. When a new model comes out the old ones drop like bricks as people here tend to want the latest and greatest. E46 M3's are $10-13k cars here thanks in part to higher gas prices and E92 M3. Sure you'll have someone with a really nice example who wants a premium but these are exceptions and not the rule. I even looked up E36 M3's in your area and there's a bunch under 10k. Now, I enjoy working on cars, not buying them for top dollar because they need nothing (nothing now but they'll need it soon unless there are service records) so my definition of a decent car may be different from yours.

I mention the greatest M car discussion because there was a mag article that omitted the E36 altogether. In fact quite a few articles reference how we got shafted with the E36. Still a great car for the money...yada yada but the fact remains. Now people are asking for more money? The discussion is not always about praise for the E46 M3, E92 M3. I have seen writers blast the E46/E92 for being too heavy and numb compared to the E30/E36. What that comes down to is how you like your car though. Had we gotten the real E36 M3 it may be a different discussion but we didn't.

[Kershaw]

Hahah... man, I come back after a hiatus and see the e36 hate hasn't changed.

It's not hate. My e36 is a great DD and with 50 more hp I'm sure it would be a decent bit more fun. But if you ask me to spend $25k on a car, an e36 m3 is not going to be on my top 10 list. Number 1 would be a Porsche Cayman. I don't even get how the two are comparable. Why would anyone spend that much an e36 m3 where there are verifiable better options out there. It's not some limited homologation special. That's why I wholeheartedly believe this is the e30 m3 dragging the price up and it has very little to do with the actual e36 m3 itself besides the name.

[Mr. Wolfe]

There is an ///M car for "almost" everyone. You just need to find your flavor and how much electronic BS you can deal with to have a fun, visceral experience. For me, I love the e30, e36, and e46. I do not need to go any further forward than the e46 as BMW and I seem to start parting ways at that point. I love the "feel" of the e30 chassis and I feel the next 2 generations are related and molded as natural progressions of it. Just because the e46M is my favorite of all the ///M cars does not cloud my judgement on others. I will always love the e30 M3 (hell, all e30's for that matter) and I feel the e36M is one of the most under-rated cars of all time. The e46M gets all of the praise (a lot of it due to perfect timing), but we wouldn't have that car without the e36. The newer cars do nothing for me at all. Sure, maybe a great DD, but not as a "fun" car for me. Personally, I would rather have my weekend car, my "expensive" car and DD a $10k car. Again, all relative as I can't just throw money around.

Mr. Wolfe

[bimma360]

I'm not joking at all but I guess that depends on where you live. I live in a state where there are tons of E36 M3's. I almost bought a super clean one for $9k a while back but got my M tech vert instead. There was even a Dinan supercharged M3 sitting at 9k for months before it sold. They even started showing up at the local pick your parts. When a new model comes out the old ones drop like bricks as people here tend to want the latest and greatest. E46 M3's are $10-13k cars here thanks in part to higher gas prices and E92 M3. Sure you'll have someone with a really nice example who wants a premium but these are exceptions and not the rule. I even looked up E36 M3's in your area and there's a bunch under 10k. Now, I enjoy working on cars, not buying them for top dollar because they need nothing (nothing now but they'll need it soon unless there are service records) so my definition of a decent car may be different from yours.

I mention the greatest M car discussion because there was a mag article that omitted the E36 altogether. In fact quite a few articles reference how we got shafted with the E36. Still a great car for the money...yada yada but the fact remains. Now people are asking for more money? The discussion is not always about praise for the E46 M3, E92 M3. I have seen writers blast the E46/E92 for being too heavy and numb compared to the E30/E36. What that comes down to is how you like your car though. Had we gotten the real E36 M3 it may be a different discussion but we didn't.

I agree, location most likely has something to do with it. But i do honestly think that more or less, regardless of location, the $15K rule will apply. I am with ya, I have no problem fixing things. I service my own cars 98% of the time. To me a decent car is records, clean paint (I can live with very minor dings), clean interior (no tears), and up to date maintenance for mileage, and no gremlins (dead pixels, hanging headliner, etc). Mileage to me isn't a priority compared to the rest of that list. Checking off every one of those boxes, and if you are picky about color/interior combo, I don't think you can do it for under $10K anymore. Of course there are exceptions, but still. And if the suspension, bushings, and cooling system aren't documented and/or done in these sub $10K cars, you are looking at $3k in parts which will bump you right back up to 10+.

On the M car discussions comment. I will say this. Although I too have seen writers blast the newer models for being too heavy and numb, I can't recall them actually preferring the e30/e36 over the newer models though. Mr Wolfe said it right. The best M car is really up to the individual. I agree that there is no right answer. If someone is a die hard chassis guy, the e30 M3 I would imagine would be the pinnacle as far as M cars go. BUT, the premium they go for now will make most look else where. And this is where the e36 M3 comes in. This is also a chassis car, and even more so with the under powered US motor. And I think this is why you are seeing the prices go up. You can buy an e30 M3 with 200K on the clock for $30k, or you can buy a completely sorted e36 M3 in the color combo you want for half the price at $15k. Like I said, the e36 M3 is 8/10's of the feel the e30 M3 gives you and its faster too (even with the US motor). And keep in mind, I am in no way trying to come out to a conclusion as to which is better. I am just saying that looking at the big picture it kind of makes sense why prices on these cars are rising.

It's not hate. My e36 is a great DD and with 50 more hp I'm sure it would be a decent bit more fun. But if you ask me to spend $25k on a car, an e36 m3 is not going to be on my top 10 list. Number 1 would be a Porsche Cayman. I don't even get how the two are comparable. Why would anyone spend that much an e36 m3 where there are verifiable better options out there. It's not some limited homologation special. That's why I wholeheartedly believe this is the e30 m3 dragging the price up and it has very little to do with the actual e36 m3 itself besides the name.

I am definitely with you on the $25k thing. Personally, I like my cars to be clean drivers cars so as far as I am concerned I don't need a $25k cream puff. I would rather spend $10-15K and do something else with the rest of the money. Or like you said, $25k on something of different caliber. If it were me, I would either spend it on a cream puff e46 M3 or an e92 M3. Either of which will most likely be my next car soon, but not e36 replacement.

But I suppose at the end of the day it really does come down to a personal thing. For me, a fun street car is a chassis car... so one with less hp. I think that is why i love the e30/e36 so much and why I hold them in high regards.