WAY before the tesla roadster ... there was the bmw 1602

[ryan SF cabrio]

i've always grooved on inca orange ... never knew a 1602e existed

http://www.businessinsider.com/bmw-1602e-pictures-2016-4

[varg]

the batteries weighed 771lbs

oof, that weight distribution.

Electric cars have been around since the 1890s or something like that, but that's one of the best looking ones made.

[TimeMachinE30]

First Porsche was electric. It was the destiny of our cars before other interests got in the way.

I have even read of a Ford Model (A?)which was designed as electric but was converted to gasoline.

Tin foil or not... Why was the EV1 ever killed?

/rant

[stonea]

I love finds like this. BMW also built an electric 325ix too.

[roguetoaster]

First Porsche was electric. It was the destiny of our cars before other interests got in the way.

I have even read of a Ford Model (A?)which was designed as electric but was converted to gasoline.

Tin foil or not... Why was the EV1 ever killed?

/rant

It probably wasn't really ready for production or they thought it would sell poorly/lose money/damage sales of current models/be a legal liability. Standard, perfectly reasonable reasons unfortunately. As to why they were crushed, well that was just SOP for development cars.

As we've seen time and time again, purely EV vehicles are dropped by major manufacturers as impractical, allowed to languish in development or refresh cycles, or otherwise canned. From my point of view, pure EVs aren't quite practical yet, getting quite close however.

[kickinindian]

Only thing ever holding this back k has been battery tech. When we can finally have batteries that have the same potential energy storage at least near fossil fuels then that's when gas will finally die, oh and speed of charging.

[TimeMachinE30]

It probably wasn't really ready for production or they thought it would sell poorly/lose money/damage sales of current models/be a legal liability. Standard, perfectly reasonable reasons unfortunately. As to why they were crushed, well that was just SOP for development cars.

As we've seen time and time again, purely EV vehicles are dropped by major manufacturers as impractical, allowed to languish in development or refresh cycles, or otherwise canned. From my point of view, pure EVs aren't quite practical yet, getting quite close however.

You gloss over plenty of details with regard to the EV. Prototype? They had a fleet of them. It was beyond the drawing board and test track. Who owns the battery patents? Why crushed? Look how long EV has been on the map but little progress... don't think there is an artificial retarding of that progress?

You also skip over politics and money in your estimation. The earliest cars were electric and steam. Steamy is meh.... but to then go gasoline... JP Morgan, Rockafeller... big oil boom...don't think it had anything to do with it? Tesla around this time was seen as a nut I would say... Edison was given superiority despite his lack of genius compared to Tesla. Notice Elon didn't name his car Edison....


.

And jalopnik has a nice article on BMW history of EV. An iX even was electeified.

I'd like to do an EV car out of a classic...]

[roguetoaster]

^
It certainly wasn't a prototype, but they were development/preproduction cars, and those almost always get crushed by mfrs. Also look at how long electric cars have been severely limited in either power, range, or both, so it's no surprise that they're not market dominant yet. The tech just isn't quite there yet, but mfrs keep throwing development dollars in that direction to advance technological progress.

As to the politics of the EV1, it's just another one of thpse stories where the conspiracy theory sounds plausible enough to be believed, so it's never been dropped. It's far more likely that the car was canned for a legitimate, never revealed to the public, justifiable business reason.

As to big oil, well, the first cars ran on crap you bought at apothecaries, so why didn't the largest manufacturers of that totally stymie gasoline production? Because it just doesn't matter, and as happens in most cases, the superior tech wins the day, and everyone knows it. Ultimately, it wasn't, and isn't cars that drive oil production, but ships, truck, and other large vehicles, which for obvious reasons can't go electric while maintaining flexibility/utility to their owners.

Finally, electricity wasn't well understood by the public then, and is still perceived as less safe to this day than flammable liquid you pump in to your controlled explosion machine for some reason.

[TimeMachinE30]

The tech is there. Look who owns the patents. Tesla is ground breaking in the battery world.

The EV1 for instance satisfied a majority of typical drivng . 90 mile range with lead batteries. There were batteries with 3x the range in development. Inearly 90s... What does the Volt get? What does a modern day EV do?! There has been no progress. Not because the technology is not there.. It is being restrained. Look at the performance of the ICE over the decades! The EV has suffered.

And since when is the technology not there ever stop us? Then you make the tech.

The idea electric in the early 1900s wasn't viable... Electricity was a boom! It was awe inspiring. Look at the Columbian Exposition, Worlds Fair of 1893. AC and DC were haute!!! Think of the range needed in that era... Think of the speeds required... A 9MPH venue with a 10 mile range would have opened up the world...

Again, you seem to gloss over external forces which suppress certain technologies. OPEC? Federal tegulations ? NHTSA and NTSB have any outsider influence? Take a peek when Iaccoca and Ford II with the President regarding vehicle safety mandates. Short time later, all safety regs on the table were cleared. Research the school bus safety regs... Airbags... Industry says you'll cost us the market, an arm and a leg... Govt says OK, sorry.

Follow the money

[Kershaw]

Finally, electricity wasn't well understood by the public then, and is still perceived as less safe to this day than flammable liquid you pump in to your controlled explosion machine for some reason.

I agree with both of you guys here and there. But this statement isn't true, it was definitely understood and considered safe. They had plenty of electric cars and they were great for the city. In fact, many women greatly preferred electric cars in the 10s and 20s when they were popular. They had a range of 40 miles and topped out at 35mph, IIRC. But that's more than enough for city driving. They were quiet, safe, comfortable, and easy to use. Remember, the electric starter didn't debut in Cadillacs until 1912.

I agree that ships and trucking definitely fueled the oil industry to become the standard, but greed squashed any hopes of the electric car persisting as a city car many times over the last 100 years. Now technology has grown so much that electric cars are impossible to ignore. But to think that big oil hasn't actively stymied electric cars is kind of naïve imo. If they could do something about it today, they definitely would.

[roguetoaster]

Should have said electric cars, and not electricity (even though the magical current is still widely misunderstood). If you doubt that people question the safety of electric cars, for a myriad of stupid reasons, just search and read articles going back to the '70s. If you were to search for safety of gasoline cars you'll find far fewer people crying wolf, as they are an accepted technology, even though they are probably more dangerous as a whole.

It's true that electric, steam, and gasoline cars all roamed the streets in harmony for a short period of time at the dawn of motoring, but I don't think anyone can point to any real action on the part of oil companies that made gasoline the dominant power choice. I mean, for decades, oil companies had no use whatsoever for light petroleum distillates!

[dnguyen1963]

Should have said electric cars, and not electricity (even though the magical current is still widely misunderstood). If you doubt that people question the safety of electric cars, for a myriad of stupid reasons, just search and read articles going back to the '70s. If you were to search for safety of gasoline cars you'll find far fewer people crying wolf, as they are an accepted technology, even though they are probably more dangerous as a whole.

It's true that electric, steam, and gasoline cars all roamed the streets in harmony for a short period of time at the dawn of motoring, but I don't think anyone can point to any real action on the part of oil companies that made gasoline the dominant power choice. I mean, for decades, oil companies had no use whatsoever for light petroleum distillates!

How do you think the chemical industry get to be where they are right now without the products from the distillates?

[TimeMachinE30]

Should have said electric cars, and not electricity (even though the magical current is still widely misunderstood). If you doubt that people question the safety of electric cars, for a myriad of stupid reasons, just search and read articles going back to the '70s. If you were to search for safety of gasoline cars you'll find far fewer people crying wolf, as they are an accepted technology, even though they are probably more dangerous as a whole.

It's true that electric, steam, and gasoline cars all roamed the streets in harmony for a short period of time at the dawn of motoring, but I don't think anyone can point to any real action on the part of oil companies that made gasoline the dominant power choice. I mean, for decades, oil companies had no use whatsoever for light petroleum distillates!

Plausible deniability.

If you are going to murder someone (and attempt to get away with it at least) you don't leave your business card and cell phone number behind. The details may not be clear as you would like but why would Chevron have purchased rights to the battery tech set to improve the already successful EV1 for instance? Has any battery tech come from the oil companies? The notion you can't point to one single tipping point is too focused of an attack.. it likely was not any one single thing. It was a multifaceted approach to destruction. And with that, it makes one wonder was it all circumstance or truly an attack carried out over time, by many. Take a grander gander and consider why a very feasible means of transport loses out to this day...

Jay Leno has a nice collection of these early cars, electric and steam. The electrics are impressive. The steam, I cannot see how they ever got much appeal than those already familiar working with steam powered devices.

Wow, and for the 1898 Porsche P1:

Controlled by a 12-speed system (six forward gears, two reverse gears and four gears used for braking), the P1 could reach a top speed of 21 miles (34 km) per hour; a single charge would carry it up to 49 miles.

(http://www.history.com/news/ferdinan...r-was-electric)

The earlier numbers I guessed.. this is impressive.... from riding a horse or hoofing it yourself.. to be offered that speed and range.. staggering for the time. In about 120 years we have gained 400% in range. I wonder how that jives with advancements of other performances...(though I'm not sure if apples to apples with battery size/cost/weight/performance/etc)

[roguetoaster]

Plausible deniability.

Got it, guilty until proven innocent.

How do you think the chemical industry get to be where they are right now without the products from the distillates?

Go read a bit on the early oil boom, top barrel products, which we need for almost everything today, were nearly garbage, as cars and plastics as we know them didn't exist. Today we have the reverse situation, heavy bitumen products are something refiners don't really want to bother with as light products yield higher profits.

[Kershaw]

Got it, guilty until proven innocent.

These aren't benevolent corporations. These are the oil barons. Have you forgotten about everything else they've done? Squashing competition is how they got the label oil barons. Let's not look at the past with our rose colored glasses.

It's not even remotely out of their standard MO. It's so squarely in the center of their bell curve it would be surprising to find out that they didn't do anything to kill electric cars.