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The Danger of eBay

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    The Danger of eBay

    If you buy a used car or motorcycle on-line from an out of state seller, you should always be prepared for a screwing. But for decades, I’ve been rebuilding old cars and motorcycles and have purchased used parts without over being cheated. Most of those purchases were thru classified ads within club newsletters & websites, such as those affiliated with the BMW Motorcycle Owners Club or the Porsche Club of America. Since 2002, I’ve bought and sold numerous cars, motorcycles and their assorted parts thru eBay. eBay relies on buyer and seller feedback to keep things honest and for years it’s seemed like an effective tool. With over 100 transactions, I’ve never given or received negative or neutral feedback……..until this year.


    This year, I purchased a 1987 325is from an eBay high volume seller of muscle cars who operates out of Miami. He described the car as “turnkey perfect”. I communicated with the seller for some time before making the purchase and was assured that I would be pleased the car. The seller had good feedback, which sealed the deal.


    When the car arrived on a tractor trailer, the driver complained that the car had leaked oil on the cars underneath. It didn’t run on all cylinders and wouldn’t shift into gear. I managed to get it into my shop and discovered that the car needed thousands of dollars in repairs.


    I contacted the seller in an effort to obtain some adjustment, but got nowhere. I finally left negative feedback and the seller asked me thru eBay email what I wanted to be satisfied. I suggested a price and he went to eBay and had my negative feedback scrubbed on the grounds that I was using negative feedback to "extort" money from the seller.


    When you leave negative feedback on eBay, eBay will discourage it by recommending negotiation with the other party. But be warned, that if you make a monetary demand or even suggest an amount to open negotiations, you may lose your chance to leave feedback.


    Later this year, I purchased a used Blaupunkt car stereo thru another high volume eBay seller. This German audio seller out of Southern California advertised itself as an active member of the BMW auto community that was committed to customer satisfaction. They promised “super fast shipping” and tech support for every purchase. This high volume eBay seller also had positive feedback. I purchased a Blaupunkt CD43 stereo.


    After two weeks, the seller had yet to ship the radio. I sent inquiries and received no response. After 3 weeks and a few additional attempts to reach the seller, I formally requested a refund thru eBay on the grounds that the vendor had failed to ship. The seller shipped the next day. Within one hour of the arrival of my package, the seller appealed my refund request and eBay rejected my request on the grounds that the package had been received. Unfortunately, the seller only sent me a partial shipment and eBay never gave me the opportunity to appeal their decision. It took me another two weeks to obtain the balance of my shipment and I found that the seller had no tech support whatsoever.


    In this case, I left neutral feedback on the seller. eBay once again scrubbed my less than positive feedback. They asserted that because I had lost my appeal for a refund, I couldn’t leave anything but positive feedback.


    A few weeks ago, I read an article on Bloomberg News about high end wrist watches. The writer warned about buying watches thru eBay because some sellers were dishonest. The author expressed bewilderment as to the fact that many of these dishonest sellers had very positive feedback.

    In the end, I’ve put about 100 hours of restoration and $7K into my new E30. I really like the car and would never have found such a rust free car in Upstate New York. Next year, the car will be finished after I install a new main rear seal and a timing belt.


    Most eBay sellers are honest, but high volume sellers are more important to eBay than lower volume buyers. So don't be too surprised if one of them screws you and you are left with nowhere to turn for help.

    #2
    i've had a few situations like this. there is a customer service number. invariably you will get to talk to some Philippino peon with almost no power to do anything for you. i have had a couple situations were that guy kicked my complaint up the chain a couple notches. eventually some supervisor called me back and i was actually able to get somewhere.
    Last edited by flyboyx; 11-07-2016, 08:46 AM.
    sigpic
    Gigitty Gigitty!!!!

    88 cabrio becoming alpina b6 3.5s transplanted s62
    92 Mtech 2 cabrio alpinweiss 770 code
    88 325ix coupe manual lachsilber/cardinal
    88 325ix coupe manual diamondschwartz/natur
    87 e30 m3 for parts lachsilber/cardinal(serial number 7)
    12 135i M sport cabrio grey/black

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      #3
      All I can say is that it's very risky to buy any car without checking it out in person first. I definitely regret buying my e36 on ebay, along with making the big mistake of paying by wire transfer. In the ad it looked really nice and I spoke to the seller (a dealer in California) who assured me it looked and drove really nice with only minor interior issues. Well, when I got the car it was a different story. I bitched to the seller about the issues (suspected headgasket problem, among other things) and he agreed to refund me $500 as long as I left some good feedback for him.

      As I pondered his offer, I went back and looked at the bidding history for the car; it was actually listed twice but did not meet the reserve the first time. I then looked at all the other cars this "dealer" had listed and noticed the same user was bidding on all the cars to drive the price higher, including my e36. I gathered the evidence and called ebay to report the seller for shill bidding and they were able to trace the IPs and confirm this.

      In the end I agreed to leave the positive feedback because it was my only hope of getting any money back, and fortunately he kept his word and [a month later] sent me a cashiers check for $500, but the best part is that ebay shut him down. Two years later my e36 has been reliable so I guess the hg is good after all

      I also bought an e30 from CAtuned on ebay. A month later the tranny died.
      My Feedback

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        #4
        Like OP says in the end, it has to be the fact that they are high-volume sellers that put a lot of money in Ebay's pocket. I've been an Ebay seller for 15 years, both with my own account and managing work accounts, all with regular selling but none what I would consider "high-volume," and I have never been successful with getting any negative feedback removed ever even in instances where it was blatant fraud on behalf of the buyer (return whatever you want in the box, put some rocks in there, whatever, as soon as the tracking shows "arrived" Ebay returns the money to the buyer's account and good luck proving you didn't get back what you sent).

        From this experienced Ebay seller's opinion, you are better off to stay with lower-volume sellers with 100% feedback but a lower total score, like in the hundreds not tens of thousands. Those people have to really work hard to maintain 100% feedback, and have no recourse whatsoever if a buyer wants to say they screwed them, so its not too easy for smaller sellers to get away with screwing people. It took me months to get a neutral removed recently even after the buyer messaged me apologizing, saying it was a mistake, and you could plainly see from what the buyer wrote in the feedback that it wasn't even about the same item.

        The only way I would buy a car off Ebay was if I was able to pick the vehicle up within the seller's deposit window and pay for it ENTIRELY in cash, no deposit, and seeing the car first-hand before paying. That way if the vehicle is misrepresented in any way, you are not obligated to pay, and you're only out travel expenses. The only exception I can think of is if they had some killer selection of photos, video and other documentation.
        Last edited by Vincent Brick; 11-06-2016, 04:21 PM.
        sigpic
        1991 325i Sport - Calypsorot Metallic - DAILY DRIVEN

        WTB in SoCal: 8"/10" Lukebox, leather Sport steering wheel, 60L MotoMeter fuel gauge, Thule/Yakima roof rack

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          #5
          I've had many good things from ebay, Ranging from car amplifiers,small car parts,xbrace,skid plates. The bad I don't think i'll ever do is buy many electrics. Brought a phone from seller and the phone stopped working the next morning.....Stuck on boot loop. Ebay wasn't much help....From the stuff I've brought in the past its been mainly all smaller sellers, someone like my self posting a ad. The big ebay dealers have way of posting the great shots of the cars and hiding many ugly parts of them....

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            #6
            Yeah, I would never buy another car off ebay again. It ended up being a fiasco too. If anyone remembers that video I posted of a red IX burning down, that was it. And it wasn't just the burning down, I'm talking things like "Show me this corner of the car, is there any rust there?" "Nope, no rust." Well there was rust, covered in 2" of bondo and hastily painted. I think he might have said there was an exhaust leak, well.. it was missing the cat.

            I buy small meaningless stuff from ebay now. Anything I'm serious about has to come from Amazon, from the sellers web store, or in person.
            AWD > RWD

            Comment


              #7
              http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=392740

              That is all you need to know about buying a car on eBay.. The listings got sparser and sparser each time it was relisted, and many photo's of the rust removed.

              I have been using ebay since 1999 as a seller and buyer. There are certain things I won't buy and certain buyers I won't buy from.

              Have I been screwed? No.
              Have I had stuff that I need to return? Yes. Luckily, the seller has been more than cooperative. One was a High volume, fiberglass parts seller. I recieved a part that was destroyed in shipping. I sent photos of the box and the part, and they refunded my money and just had me toss the old part.

              But this is also a good reminder of why having your shipment INSURED. Insurance doesn't always cover if stuff is stolen off your porch, but it does cover if it's run over by a forklift or crushed in the back of a truck..

              Also, this brings up a good point: do your research. If you are buying something from some one, (not just eBay but anywhere) do a quick Google search for any of the sellers contact info. It'll tell you if they have any thing in their history that may lead you to believe they could be questionable..
              1991 325i MT2 Touring (JDM bro)
              2016 Ford Flex
              2011 Audi A3 - wife's other German car

              Comment


                #8
                As soon as I read "seller...who operates out of Miami", I knew where the post was headed.

                I've lived on South FL and am responsible for my employer's operations there. I've met and work with many great, hard work people there. One thing I never forget is that "ethics" and "honesty" have a completely different meaning (or maybe no meaning at all) there.

                OP - Sorry you got screwed. Thank for taking the time to post and warn others.

                Cory
                1992 325i Cabrio
                1988 320i Touring
                2000 M5
                1977 530i
                2015 328i - Euro Delivery/Performance Center Delivery
                BMWCCA
                E30CCA

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                  #9
                  I stopped selling anything on ebay and usually try to find a seller whos local to me so I can see the stuff in person. I bribe the person by saying that they will get more money because I will pay asking price and they dont get hit with ebay fees. It usually works
                  Simon
                  Current Cars:
                  -1966 Lotus Elan
                  -1986 Mercedes Benz 2.3-16
                  -2006 Volkswagen Jetta TDI

                  Make R3V Great Again -2020

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                    #10
                    The Danger of eBay

                    I enjoyed reading the responses and feedback from my eBay rant. Thank you, all.

                    I think that most people are honest and decent. Because I live up in rust country, finding rust free cars can be a challenge. I've welded patches in rusty bodies and have broken bolts while tearing down old cars. I've had a number of '80s era German cars and don't want to invest in anything but a rust free car. So, I have taken chances, knowing that it could turn out badly. The alternative side of the story is about how many honest sellers are out there.

                    If I had to choose, I would rather be screwed than to screw someone else. I would rather look in the mirror and see a sucker than a crook. But most of my on-line & long distance transactions have been winners for all parties.

                    My issue is with eBay. When they start playing with the feedback system, they risk damaging the only means for keeping the system honest. I've also noted the seller's complaints about dishonest buyers.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      The issue is that all these sites rely on sellers being reputable. They have a vested interest in having sellers that appear more honest than they really are.

                      AWD > RWD

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                        #12
                        I have a very similar tale of woe concerning an eBay car purchase .It would probably take me more than an hour to describe all of the things that occurred in my case ,including the first transport company taking the 400.00 for shipping the car and vanishing .It has been a 13 month ordeal and thousands of dollars to date and the car is still not smogged and titled in my name ,I just dropped the car off at a third shop this morning hoping to finally solve the running issues so it can be smogged .There are some really dishonest lying people out there ,very disappointing.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Being a seller also comes with it's risks. Be sure to take pictures of serial numbers of anything you sell. Let's say you are selling a car stereo. A buyer will buy your stereo, swap it out with their stereo which is the exact same model, and return it to you stating that it doesn't work and they want a refund.
                          1989 325i S50 swapped
                          2007 4Runner Sport V8

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                            #14
                            The Danger of eBay
                            There's only one?

                            Me, I think a good chunk of the thing is dangerous, and only spend 'play' money there...

                            t
                            now, sometimes I just mess with people. It's more entertaining that way. george graves

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                              #15
                              I'm pretty sure I dealt with the same company in Miami. Was such a headache and they were so terribly rude that I cut the deal off.

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